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What makes a pcp a pcp?

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kruzaroad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kruzaroad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2022 at 9:16pm
Man that is add tedium.
Just spent the last 30min scrolling the definitions of arms act.
Got past the descriptions around weapons, but by no means got through the whole act, or followed to many ref.
But all I found was basically its a law passed and there is no definition.
I've copied all the air rifle stuff, relative to this subject so far. Anyone want to see it shout out. I'll keep looking.
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Billbobnz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Billbobnz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2022 at 9:49pm
Talking of compressing other gasses, I know a big bore airgun manufacturer in the US was using compressed nitrogen for their big bores. There are vids on YouTube.

One thing I've been thinking for a long time is airaoft shooters using high pressure air regulatored down to 500ish psi. But if I change my bulk filled CO2 rifle to the same system using 850-900psi the same as CO2 it makes it a PCP. I haven't tried running air on my cr600w but it would make the shot string more consistent.
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Billbobnz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Billbobnz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2022 at 9:54pm
Thing about the gun laws here is the average police wouldn't know the bare basics for airguns. And they seam to make the laws up as they go along as the pen pushes don't know anything.

The UK laws seam to have been set by a airgunner to allow everyone to have some fun in each category
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jwabfrog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2022 at 11:16am
The new laws were intended to reduce the risk of semi auto guns. CO2 guns are safer than compressed air (78% Nitrogen, 21% O2) due to the thermal / pressure characteristics of CO2. CO2 guns can't deliver the same pressures as compressed air PCPs and CO2 guns also can't be fired repeatedly without energy dropping.

Google "phase diagram CO2" to see graphs illustrating the temperature and pressure properties of CO2.

If you repeatedly fire a CO2 gun, the expanding gas has a cooling effect and causes the CO2 pressure to drop i.e. become safer. Taken to the extreme, the repeated expansion of the CO2 and resulting cooling can turn the CO2 into a liquid or even solid rendering the gun effectively useless.

You could never run CO2 at PCP pressure - the CO2 would turn into a liquid. CO2 needs to be in gas form for the weapon to operate. In liquid form you would pull the trigger and release CO2 liquid into the breech, this liquid requires energy & time to boil in order to change into a gas and create the pressure needed to fire a slug. This is too slow: you need an instantaneous burst of expanding high pressure gas to launch a slug.

Compressed air has a more favourable phase diagram for use in a weapon - it remains in gas form at way higher pressures than CO2. Given the same pressure, compressed air also remains in gas form at lower temperatures - meaning you don't run into the same cooling problems as CO2 with repeated firing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kruzaroad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2022 at 1:07pm
Very nice description.
So the ability of highly pressured gas to hold its faze ability and produce repeatable high energy shots ( in rapid succession) is probly the closest I've got to a description that fits with out other air gun cross overs. Encompasses and elimates differnt propellants.
Should send that to the law makers.
Be a nice to find that on a legal description site.
To anyone who alluded to that before and I never clued on sorry.
Thanks jwabfrog I can accept that as a definition for a pcp.
Still haven't found a description in arms act.
Won't start on well why aren't pcp pistols exempt.
But definitely the definition I'll work of from now on, till I find a legal definition.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Billbobnz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2022 at 6:07pm
Yep I understand all that, but it would be nice to run CO2 guns at regulatored 850/900psi and do that without needing a FAL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dvlnme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2022 at 1:11pm
the definition of a pistol is any gun thats under 762 mm in length but when it comes to pcps the law consders any pcp airgun with a buttstock evan carbines the same as it does for those under 762mm in length as pcp rifles,if you convert any co2 rifle to use hpa its then legally considered to a pcp rifle,pcp pistols are exempt from this classification because they are not specifically mentioned in the law dispite them being under 762mm in length so are legally considered to be just the same catogory as any other air pistol,as the law dosnt mention how pcp airguns are charged any rifle that has an hpa cylander that can be filled with hpa by any fill method is considered to be a pcp rifle,the trouble with this law is that it was never thourght thru properly,so much of it is open to interpretation by nz police who then decide what the classification all airguns come under and that is how nz police administer this law,as nz police have been given total discrecression on how they now can interperate all firearms laws this is allso why replica soft airguns are now essentually banned imports as well as are allso many other types of co2 airguns,as for the rifle with the built in pump,because it has the capablity to be charged allso by other means and has an hpa cylander,nz police will consider it a pcp evan if the second charging system was removed,simpliy because it was origionally a pcp rifle,i wouldnt push that issuse with nz police the way they interperate the law these days,there are some pretty murky waters around the definition of a pcp rifle these days.
 cheers mike
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dvlnme View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dvlnme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2022 at 1:23pm
it comes down very simpliy to this as you have a firearms licence you pretty much do whatever you want with airguns,if you dont have a licence you cant put any co2 air rifle on hpa as it then becomes a pcp rifle which requires you hold a licence,i put co2 rifles onto hpa all the time but i hold a licence so i legally doso,they banned the import of QB co2 rifles because so many put them on hpa after the law was changed making all pcp rifles licence required simpliy because nz police believed this was being done by some who didnt want to get a licence to buy a pcp rifle,this wasnt the reason many did convert co2 rifles to hpa but thats what nz police believed was the reason they didso the new gun laws pertaining to airguns are a total mess because they are so vague and open to different interperation by nz police and unfortunatly nz police make the rules now.
 cheers mike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pauly5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2022 at 7:53am
Then you can have a Marauder pistol, pcp without an FAL, but put the stock on it and you then need an FAL for basically the same thing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kruzaroad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2022 at 8:34am
Are those straps that mount to the back of a gun and you put around your shoulder and pull against, instead of a stock concidered a stock? Or are they carry straps.

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