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What makes a pcp a pcp?

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kruzaroad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kruzaroad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: What makes a pcp a pcp?
    Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 3:58pm
So I was looking at a Seneca Aspen.
. 25 pcp with built in pump same a Multipump. High pressure connection valve for filling.
So if the filling valve taken off and a plug put in, would it then no longer be considered a pcp and a Multipump instead?
I've looked on Web but cant find any definition of what makes a pcp a pcp under nz law.

If it's precharging a cylinder then all multipump must be pcp.

If its connecting it to a external filling source, either hand pump or tank, then it wouldn't be with filler valve removed.

If its a pressure thing that wouldn't make scence as there are springers that hit the volicity of pcp. So there for must create the same pressure.

If its multi shot then heaps of CO2 guns are Pcp.

Anyone know the definition?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J-S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 4:27pm
I’d look at it as prechargining with air for multiple shots.. co2 isn’t air so not pcp, multi pump charges for a single shot where the stored air is then expelled, so not pcp.
If there was a multipump that allowed stored air for more than one full power shot then I’d say it’s a pcp. There are pcps that have an integral pump for charging.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kruzaroad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 7:50pm
That sounds reasonable.
Though the CO2 and air distention,
Just because its not air, doesn't really separate the fact of mutishot pressurised chamber.

What separates pcp from rifles?
Is that a length thing?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kruzaroad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 8:20pm
From what I can work out from what I can find, there is no definition. Technically its an air rifle and the only reason it has a special category, is it was issued one by Judith.
After the shootings the biggest issue was it was semi auto, so delived multiple shots to cop who died.
That would stand to reason as to why multi shot springers arnt banned, but not why CO2 arnt.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J-S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 8:57pm
Originally posted by kruzaroad kruzaroad wrote:

That sounds reasonable.
Though the CO2 and air distention,
Just because its not air, doesn't really separate the fact of mutishot pressurised chamber.

What separates pcp from rifles?
Is that a length thing?


Co2 has a lot lower pressure than air, so only air classes as “especially dangerous”

Rifles are designed to be shot from a shouldered position. There is a minimum length; 762mm I think.. I don’t know if it’s a legal minimum length or just a minimum length for importation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kruzaroad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 11:24pm
Can't a pcp be filled with CO2 to the higher pressure if required?
Would that then not be a pcp?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J-S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2022 at 10:40am
"Most PCP airguns run on between 3000 and 4000 psi"
"CO2 works very differently. Unlike air, CO2 can be compressed into a liquid at around 900 PSI. As long as there’s sufficient liquid in the co2 cartridge or bottle, the pressure will remain about 900 PSI at room temperature."

if a rifle is made as a pcp its a pcp, whether you fill with air, co2, nitrogen, helium. You would still need FAL to posess a rifle that is intended to be a pcp..

You cant use high pressure air in a co2 rifle as it will likely explode as its not built for the much higher pressure.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kruzaroad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2022 at 2:50pm
A rifle may be made a pcp, that still doesn't explain the definition.
No one seems to be able to say this is the written definition by nz law of a pcp. ( Im starting to wonder if there is one)
And if you can, point me to it please.
So let's skip CO2.
What about a different gas.
Nitrogen can be filled up to 6000 psi; air is typically not filled that high.
Its also used a propellent in gas powered rifles. Though I imagine not at that pressure as it would require a much stronger bottle. Different connections.
Arnt gas ram air rifles nitrogen filled?
The three things I see that may define a pcp are ability to fire multiple shots from one fill (as mentioned earlier in thread to me)
External Valves for filling from a outside source.
Semi auto which was a concern at the time.
Two of those can be found in lower powered CO2 guns.
The other is not viable as pcp pistols use them.
Here's some thing to think about, if there is no legal definition of a pcp, at some stage one will be written and in that definition will come a whole host of cross overs to other air guns.
Or maybe they bring in the 12fps across the board.
That will mean a lot of air rifles in ppls hands that will need a fal.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote xyon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2022 at 4:41pm
Have you read the firearms act?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kruzaroad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2022 at 8:20pm
I've looked through various things in the act but I'll have a deeper look.
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