The Sub16 comparison.

Hey pete can you put up the link here for you slug video when you put it up?
I recently got rid of utube off my phone and dont get the notification any more.

I've been doing a bit of paid rabbit work at a cemetery lately and have shot rabbits at 60 -80 and the odd 100m with pellets, but as the rabbits are more weary, the ranges are increasing, so I am now considering slugs again as I think this is the purpose they hold, for the longer ranges. Power is not an issue, it's battling wind at longer ranges.

Thanks guys.
Kruza, I’m (still) working on similar review of the 10gr knock out slugs.
I’ve done all the shooting, just need to find the time to do all the editing and put it together.
It’s what I’m going to work on next.
U guys got bits and pieces of it as it was slowly happening when I found interesting things and posted them here.

U certainly could shoot slugs in springers, there are plenty of guys in the UK that are doing it, and they are sub12.
Just choose a “light” weight slug and give it a try. You won’t get blistering speeds of course, and you probably won’t get the extreme expansions and energy dumps that come from high speeds, but… if u find a slug that is accurate in your rifle, it might have a slightly lower muzzle velocity than a similar weight pellet, but, it is still going to out perform that pellet a distances past 50. Because of its slug shape it is going to retain more speed, be less effected by wind and will still hit harder than that pellet at distance.
U just need to try a few and find one that shoots well out of your springer.

With regards to the pellet noise, I think it is possible that the hades, or any similar “not smooth” pellet could make more noise then a smooth round head.
From my years of shooting competitive archery and bow hunting, I can tell you that all arrows make noise while flying down range. Arrows with solid one piece broad heads are the “quietest”. Broad heads that have cut outs and vents to save weight and make them lighter, whistle loudly down range in flight!!!
Don’t ask me how I know that.

However, I still believe with slow pellets, the sound of the rifle is still what they react to.
Over 60yards, the sound of the rifle (hammer hitting valve) leaves the rifle technically before the pellet even leaves the muzzle. The rifle sound travels to the rabbit at 1100 odd fps, and dosent slow down. If the pellet is doing 550fps (ish) at the muzzel, (half the speed), and starts slowing down immediately.
The sound of the rifle has reached the rabbits before the pellets have even reached half way.
The rabbits may well hear the pellets in flight, but they heard the rifle first. Just my 2cents worth.

Excellent! Nice work Pete! Thanks for this very field useful real world video. Classic work from you Pete with excellent attention to detail. And I now understand why you've done a lot of work with slugs...and how valuable the time taken for autopsies really is. Kruza, also classic is your analysing animal behaviour - I too was trying to figure out what was going on in those bunny brains. It was almost like they heard the shot -giving a WTF reaction with an instinct to get low then perhaps perceiving the pellet coming resulting in a leap and bolt away from the projectile. And your hands on long range target research is also great. Pete and Kruza, you guys should get together and write a bunny book. You both come from different angles to some very interesting observations. Your threads are my favourites - "You gotta be out there..." for game observation and various threads from Pete about hands on field ballistics including the excellent "JSB Knockout" thread and your efforts to reduce stray pellets/slugs from fully penetrating animals is a credit to you given it means better and safer service for your clients. Thanks again guys for your inspiring information from a would be bunny shooter.

Very interesting. Well put together.
Hope you got that age restricted, or just on site, don't know if utube will leave it up to long if not.
Watching the reaction of rabbits ducking pellets, and how accurately they bent under or moved to avoid pellet, I would suggest that maybe you should set up somewhere safe and listen to the sound of a pellet going past ( ive heard them before when standing to one side of a target at 100m) you will hear them as they approach and pass. It looks to me like they responding directly to the pellet. They seem to be actively avoiding the pellet not just responding to sound of gun.Though the rifle sound may start the reaction.
Great video.

Edited by kruzaroad - 07 Dec 2024 at 10:09am

Some interesting results comming out of this sub 16FPE comparison.

Not just from the terminal ballistics side, but from other things I’ve been noticing like the correlation of pellet velocity’s and rabbit reaction times to the shot…
From watching many video replays of shots, it seems past a certain distance a faster pellet is preferable, slower pellets give the rabbit the opportunity to hear the shot and react before the pellet gets there!!!

Obviously other factors like ambient noise and wind direction will influence it, but on the still, quiet nights when I do most of my culling I’ve decided that regardless of projectile caliber or weight, if I’m shooting out past 40yards I want my muzzle velocity higher than 700fps.

Wow Myson, that’s a lot of cats, good work!

The problem I have is that I’m always on other peoples property when I’m out culling rabbits at night.
And the very vast majority of my clients don’t want cats shot on their properties, either because they have cats them selves, or because they are worried about the neighbours cats… 🤔

I firmly believe that every rule that applies to owning a dog in NZ should also apply to owning a cat, which includes licensing it, wearing a collar and a bell, and containing it with in your own property.