The Sub16 comparison.

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   Some interesting results comming out of this sub 16FPE comparison.

Not just from the terminal ballistics side, but from other things I’ve been noticing like the correlation of pellet velocity’s and rabbit reaction times to the shot…
From watching many video replays of shots, it seems past a certain distance a faster pellet is preferable, slower pellets give the rabbit the opportunity to hear the shot and react before the pellet gets there!!!

Obviously other factors like ambient noise and wind direction will influence it, but on the still, quiet nights when I do most of my culling I’ve decided that regardless of projectile caliber or weight, if I’m shooting out past 40yards I want my muzzle velocity higher than 700fps. 

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RangerPete Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 18 Apr 2023 Location: Cambridge. Status: Offline Posts: 884	Post Options Post Reply Quote RangerPete Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: The Sub16 comparison. Posted: 14 Sep 2024 at 2:38pm
	Some interesting results comming out of this sub 16FPE comparison. Not just from the terminal ballistics side, but from other things I’ve been noticing like the correlation of pellet velocity’s and rabbit reaction times to the shot… From watching many video replays of shots, it seems past a certain distance a faster pellet is preferable, slower pellets give the rabbit the opportunity to hear the shot and react before the pellet gets there!!! Obviously other factors like ambient noise and wind direction will influence it, but on the still, quiet nights when I do most of my culling I’ve decided that regardless of projectile caliber or weight, if I’m shooting out past 40yards I want my muzzle velocity higher than 700fps.
	Walk quietly, but carry a big stick.

Myson Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 06 Mar 2016 Location: Feilding Status: Offline Posts: 182	Post Options Post Reply Quote Myson Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 Aug 2024 at 6:57am
	Totally agree Pete! Yeah - you're in a tricky situation, being on others' property and probably not too far from neighbours or town? I've shot two more on local farms this year with my beloved S510. All in the late evening as they start their nightly prowl. It's time to start wall-mounting their heads, methinks?!!!!
	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq7jVyBfFqE Air Arms S510 US .22 Air Arms S410 .22 Weihrauch HW97KT .177 Weihrauch HW95 .177

RangerPete Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 18 Apr 2023 Location: Cambridge. Status: Offline Posts: 884	Post Options Post Reply Quote RangerPete Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 Aug 2024 at 4:13pm
	Wow Myson, that’s a lot of cats, good work! The problem I have is that I’m always on other peoples property when I’m out culling rabbits at night. And the very vast majority of my clients don’t want cats shot on their properties, either because they have cats them selves, or because they are worried about the neighbours cats… 🤔 I firmly believe that every rule that applies to owning a dog in NZ should also apply to owning a cat, which includes licensing it, wearing a collar and a bell, and containing it with in your own property.
	Walk quietly, but carry a big stick.

Myson Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 06 Mar 2016 Location: Feilding Status: Offline Posts: 182	Post Options Post Reply Quote Myson Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 Aug 2024 at 3:15pm
	Regarding wild cats Pete, I used to go hunting pheasants in the forests near Napier during the season. I flushed so many wild cats during the first two years over there, I put my shotgun away and took a silenced Ruger M77 .223 rifle instead on my third year. It's 1-in-9 twist barrel allowed me to shoot 68gr Hornady Match rounds extremely accurately out to 800yds. That season, we shot 61 cats (!) in one week in various forests over there!!!! And that was without NV gear! We just piled up rabbits and possums in various spots and snipered 'em from 100-200yds - great fun! But I reckon, if we'd had NV gear, our total would have been 100+! I've never seen so many wild cats in all my life. I guess the warmer drier weather over there - and lots of tucker (Quail, Pheasants, Rabbits, etc) - allowed them to breed successfully? Keep knocking 'em down mate! They're a menace....
	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq7jVyBfFqE Air Arms S510 US .22 Air Arms S410 .22 Weihrauch HW97KT .177 Weihrauch HW95 .177

kruzaroad Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 02 Jul 2022 Location: Hastings 4 now Status: Offline Posts: 2282	Post Options Post Reply Quote kruzaroad Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 Aug 2024 at 12:48pm
	Get a live trap and throw a rabbit in. If they are that use to stealing your rabbits they will go in. Hang the rest above it.

RangerPete Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 18 Apr 2023 Location: Cambridge. Status: Offline Posts: 884	Post Options Post Reply Quote RangerPete Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 Aug 2024 at 12:32pm
	Holy moly... fricken cats!!!! You have no idea how many cats I see out there at night. Nothing can hide from the thermal. If it's in plain sight of my eye, i.e. not hiding behind something, I can see it. I can see a mouse at 100m, which you wouldnt be able to do in broad day light with the naked eye, too far and too small, but with the thermal at night I'll see it. I see cats out there every night. And i'm getting sick and tired of them stealing my rabbits that I collect and leave somewhere so I can pick them up later on my way out for necropsys to workout pellet performance and terminal ballistics. Shoot 15 rabbis, recover maybe 3 or 4 (selective depending on shot distance, shot angle, location of rabbit, ease of recovery in the dark, electric fences etc),after losses to cats I might get 1 or 2 home. Ive had cats come in and steal the carcass before I could even get to it to recover it. The head shots are better because the rabbit drops right there, silently. The heart lung shots attract cats, the distress calls and death shreak are like a dinner bell to a cat. If there is a cat with in 50m of a dying rabbit it will come running. Dying pigeons attract cats the same way. Ive even had carcasses eaten in the back of my UTE. Fricken cats.
	Walk quietly, but carry a big stick.

kruzaroad Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 02 Jul 2022 Location: Hastings 4 now Status: Offline Posts: 2282	Post Options Post Reply Quote kruzaroad Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 Aug 2024 at 7:22pm
	I just ran his name. A lot of stuff came up. He's still part air magazine i think it was

RangerPete Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 18 Apr 2023 Location: Cambridge. Status: Offline Posts: 884	Post Options Post Reply Quote RangerPete Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 Aug 2024 at 7:19pm
	Hi Myson, I'll look him up. His work sounds very interesting. I love terminal ballistics, I could study it like a science, just wish I could get someone to pay me for doing it...
	Walk quietly, but carry a big stick.

Myson Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 06 Mar 2016 Location: Feilding Status: Offline Posts: 182	Post Options Post Reply Quote Myson Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 Aug 2024 at 5:36pm
	Pete - There's a chap called Gary Wain in the Airgun World magazine who has completed countless trials on pellet penetration / trajectories that you might like to read up on..... He talks a lot about Sectional Density, Ballistic Coefficients, etc... and has done some very interesting comparisons on many different types of pellets, at various ranges, in various conditions, etc... He uses everything from pig heads to ballistic gels / clays - with chronographs at muzzle and target - to clarify pellet ballistics and performance. Excellent stuff! Unfortunately, he does not appear to be on Youtube so you'll need to source some of these magazines if you're interested in reviewing his articles. I have a pile here that you are welcome to when you're next passing through the Manawatu. He's well worth a read if you haven't come across him before? PM me if ever you're coming down this way.... PS: Overall, after 2 years of trials, he concluded that the standard dome-shaped diabolo pellets in any calibre are the most effective at accuracy and energy transfer for hunters. I think he now is doing similar work with slugs... but I've stopped my subscription because of recurring shipping delivery failures between UK and NZ.
	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq7jVyBfFqE Air Arms S510 US .22 Air Arms S410 .22 Weihrauch HW97KT .177 Weihrauch HW95 .177

RangerPete Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 18 Apr 2023 Location: Cambridge. Status: Offline Posts: 884	Post Options Post Reply Quote RangerPete Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 Aug 2024 at 1:13pm
	No. Too complicated to get rabbits to stand sill at such specific distances. I’ve taken a more practical and more “commonly encounter by hunters” approach. Ive got the 3 rifles set up as follows .177 15.9FPE, .22 15.6FPE and .25 15.9FPE at the muzzle. To get 3 rifles set up with their preferred pellet, and tuned to be accurate, while all being with in 0.3FPE of each other is a feat in its self. I’m then going to try and document, recover and autopsy 3 head shots and 3 chest shots with each caliber. Planning to try get one head shot and one chest shot with each caliber at 30ish, 40ish and 50ish yards, then comlpair how many FPE each had at the actual distance the shot ended up being taken (according to a reputable balistic calculator) and what its terminal performance was.
	Walk quietly, but carry a big stick.