Let’s talk about Groups
Printed From: Kiwi Airgunners
Category: General
Forum Name: Flub's General Discussion
Forum Description: General discussion goes in here.
URL: www.kiwiairgunners.co.nz/forum_posts.asp?TID=991
Printed Date: 19 Apr 2025 at 11:45am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 10.14 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Let’s talk about Groups
Posted By: Declan
Subject: Let’s talk about Groups
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2024 at 12:25pm
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I hear about people shooting pellet on pellet over some longish distances. And shooting a pcp I believe marksmen can achieve that sort of accuracy. Me? Well there’s no way I can achieve that degree of accuracy shooting a springer. Today I shot over 50m in a 10kmh left to right variable breeze. I used my FWB Sport using .177 JSB Express pellets with a 3” target. I’ve attached a couple of photos of my day’s end 7 shot group. For me that’s about as good as I can achieve outdoors over that sort of distance. But I’m sure others could do a lot better. Cheers. Declan  
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Replies:
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2024 at 1:45pm
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Looking at that spread first thing i would looking at is pellets. (assuming you have your hold sorted and rifle us accurate.) Thats the sort of spread that is, looks like Flyers and not pulled shots. How accurate is it at 20-30m? |
Posted By: Declan
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2024 at 1:53pm
| The pellets are unsorted straight out of the can. Good tip. Thanks. |
Posted By: Myson
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2024 at 2:00am
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Hi Declan, Assuming you're using the Artillery Hold on a rest, using Follow Thro', etc.. and assuming you've determined that that pellet is the best for your barrel (?), then I'd say a variable wind of that strength at 55yds is the main culprit because:
How does the FWB perform on a windless day at that range usually? For comparison, my Weihrauch HW95 .177 breakbarrel - using 8.4gr AA Diabolo Field at 920fps - would only just improve on your group with that sort of wind at 55yds. On a still day, a 5-shot group would usually be within 20-23 mm at 55yds. Hope that makes sense? Have you tried different Head sizes too? I believe your pellet is mainly 4.50mm? You might like to review the following article?: http://hardairmagazine.com/reviews/jsb-exact-express-diabolo-7-87-grain-177-pellet-test-review/" rel="nofollow - http://hardairmagazine.com/reviews/jsb-exact-express-diabolo-7-87-grain-177-pellet-test-review/ Let us know how you get along with your trials - thanks.  Maybe a slightly heavier pellet would perform better? ------------- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq7jVyBfFqE" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq7jVyBfFqE Air Arms S510 US .22 Air Arms S410 .22 Weihrauch HW97KT .177 Weihrauch HW95 .177 |
Posted By: J-S
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2024 at 5:20am
Love to see some pics of the rifle too - ive not had a fwb sport but definitely on "the list" ------------- https://www.instagram.com/js_airguns/" rel="nofollow - J S Airguns Air Arms TX200('s) Theoben Sirocco HW77 FWB 300s Webley Patriot One or two others... Current projects: Too many.. |
Declan wrote:Posted By: mercs
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2024 at 3:06pm
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We use two standard club targets for inside and outdoors: 5 diagram 80mm roundels and 10 diagram 50mm roundels and both have a 6mm bull. We normally shoot 20 shots a card Pictured is my best target card from a 50 metre club shoot early this month. My worst later in the day was 68mm OD however I was pleased they were all scoring shots. Rifle: .22 Sig Sauer ASP20 break barrel, SportsMatch Mount, Zero Tech Scope, JSB Exact 14.35 grain. This ASP20 rifle is under the forums reviews where Kruza sent me back to do better some time ago so I did. The rifle is standard from the factory with several thousand pellets fired. I am often the only springer shooter and thoroughly enjoy the challenge up against our very capable PCP users who will regularly shoot 12.5mm OD or less all inside the 8 ring. On this day the best individual diagram score was 39/40 so I have plenty to aspire to. 4 shot group 19.6mm OD. Conditions were near perfect. Position: bench rest Scope magnification x18 Rifle gas piston, 19.79 ft/lb Distance 50 metres First diagram of the day. Overall Target diameter 80mm  |
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2024 at 7:28am
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And I have no dought you'll be posting better than that at some stage. Nice shooting. Should really get the sig out again. I haven't got the new rifle set up for night shooting. They are a really nice shooting gun. |
Posted By: RangerPete
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2024 at 4:38am
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Declan - 50m in some wind with a springer…. I don’t think that’s too bad at all 👍🏻 Mercs - where do u get to shoot 50m outdoors over benches? ------------- Walk quietly, but carry a big stick. |
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2024 at 5:35am
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4 groups 10m. (not on bags) All 1.03grams. 4 differnt head sizes. The left target holes outside target from previous testing. Right hand target higher hole is where pencil went through putting dot between head size. This head size I will reshoot as I've had much better results and arnt sure why it went like this. Hope the gun hasn't settled and decided it prefures 5.52mm. But one size did do better than rest. 
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Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2024 at 6:32am
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So taking the left hand target. Measuring the distance of the pellet to the far right, from the main group and expanding that out over distance. (remembering that I'm firing from the same place so I'm working with angle) @40m=1.6cm off center 50m=2cm 60m=2.4cm 70m=2.8cm that's if I fire dead on target,on a windless day. The pellet to left of target is same distance approx and would be about same to left over distance. That is to much of spread for me (espially if I'm shooting from standing position.) as the whole group is pretty wide. That head size is out. I have more accurate results from other head sizes. Its enough to make a kill shot a wounding shot or a miss. We don't have the impact power to have the shock of impact like a powder burner. This is why I weigh and size pellet heads. It tightens groups and gives me a little leeway for movement. Also a noticable drop in Flyers. |
Posted By: mercs
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2024 at 4:12pm
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Thanks Kruza, lets all get out there and post some groups before winter sets in. Not much breeze so fun plinking session this evening and a sample of 5 shot groups at 13 yards.
Lately working with my CO2 powered .22 Umarex 850 and JSB Match 13.73 grain wadcutters. Centre 5 shot group was from the day before using bench-rest with a light breeze, the first three pellets touching the bull and passing through the same hole before I lost it. Chasing the 6mm or 1/4 inch group for a while now. Outer groups: group 1 leaning against a tree, POA was the number 3. Group 2 sitting and using elbows, group 3 bench & bipod and group 4 bench & bipod with rear bag.  |
Posted By: Myson
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2024 at 5:45am
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First 5 shots at 50yds (my chosen zero):
A 16mm group (!), slightly high and slightly left - so I adjusted my Element Helix scope:
Gotta be happy with that eh?!!! ------------- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq7jVyBfFqE" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq7jVyBfFqE Air Arms S510 US .22 Air Arms S410 .22 Weihrauch HW97KT .177 Weihrauch HW95 .177 |
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2024 at 6:04am
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I definitely would be. Nice shooting Myson. Same with Mercs great grouping. Love that idea of differnt shooting positions on one target. Don't really pratice them enough. Gonna a target master copy right now with 5 targets. Standing, kneeling, sitting, prone, rested. Cheers mercs. |
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2024 at 8:32am
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Thew up 4 targets. No reshoots. Just however it went. Arms lost a bit strength over last month. Hold under 1mildot (probly should have zeroed to 10m,as mildot totally covered bulls, but haven't worked out distances for dialing on turret yet.) The kneeling and sitting pulled, should really be bad judgement on trigger timing. Bench is a genuine pull. One thing is for sure, need to work on trigger pull.  Bench is not off bags. Front hand on a box. Rest of gun floating. Standing is standing and killed my arm. Surprised I didn't shoot bigger group. Sitting is leaning back with hand on knee. Kneeling is elbow on knee. Definitely not my best shooting but not my worst either. |
Posted By: JasonEdward
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2024 at 7:46am
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Seems to me you're all shooting very damn straight and that's great - something to aspire to for me. First up testing pellets I guess... I'm tempted to stick with H&N purely because they seem to be available here - and Pete has sent me a sample pack. Is that a dumb idea starting with one brand of pellet? ------------- |
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2024 at 8:25am
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Yep. Go with one type of pellet first. I. E Diablo. Try that out in a few brands. Find what it likes. Get one pellet that groups well, then try differnt types. |