Problems with my scope....
Printed From: Kiwi Airgunners
Category: Technical
Forum Name: Pauly's Technical Area
Forum Description: Technical information, Modifications and DIY projects are all in here
URL: www.kiwiairgunners.co.nz/forum_posts.asp?TID=797
Printed Date: 09 May 2024 at 6:14am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 10.14 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Problems with my scope....
Posted By: Myson
Subject: Problems with my scope....
Date Posted: 03 May 2023 at 3:33pm
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Hi all, I'm having problems with my Hawke Vantage SF IR 4-16 x 50 scope.  In summary: It won’t hold zero -
the groups loosen and creep right and up (usually) When trying to re-adjust left and down I get the following results: o Clicks Left sometimes work, sometimes nothing happens o Clicks Down sometimes work, sometimes nothing happens o Clicks for windage often affect elevation o Clicks for elevation often affect windage This leaves me “chasing” the bullseye and when I do finally get it back on bull, the zero-ed groups end up moving again after a few more shots next day! ·
The Parallex adjustment
SF knob is extremely stiff and has not loosened up after months of use
· Over 75 yds, the focus is very poor and cannot be adjusted further. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq7jVyBfFqE" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq7jVyBfFqE Air Arms S510 US .22 Air Arms S410 .22 Weihrauch HW97KT .177 Weihrauch HW95 .177 |
Replies:
Posted By: nunga
Date Posted: 03 May 2023 at 4:43pm
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I would say the internal optics have come loose. this sometimes happens when you over adjust them to get zero or over adjust for left or right. You can pull them apart and fix but they are air tight and as soon as you crack the seal you will run into problems later on because the lenses will probably fog up. ------------- 2nd place HP springer - WFTF World Championships 2014 |
Posted By: FPM
Date Posted: 03 May 2023 at 8:21pm
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I was just about to respond to cover the low hanging fruit and then I saw who the OP was and thought probably no point... I did notice when using one of your rifles something wasn't right with the scope and I recall mentioning it. Was it the same one? Has this scope ever worked properly for you?
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Posted By: Billbobnz
Date Posted: 03 May 2023 at 8:34pm
| Is it under warranty still? |
Posted By: mercs
Date Posted: 03 May 2023 at 9:06pm
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I tried two 3-9x40 AO scopes in 2018 and they had a similar "creep" failure mode to yours. I had registered for the Lifetime Warranty and when I expressed dissatisfaction I was promptly reimbursed. I thought they were very clear, focused well and rather pleased with accuracy when new however they did not last long on my springers. They were and are clearly advertised as airgun rated but in my opinion that would apply only to sub 12ft/lb, CO2 or PCP. The more robust Airmax model was not readily available at the time and I know owners who have had great service from that model on airguns. They have kept selling the Vantage so must be satisfied users out there. cheers
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Posted By: Myson
Date Posted: 04 May 2023 at 7:26am
Thanks all for your feedback.... it's much appreciated.  The dealer believes I might have over-tightened this particular sight - he may be right? But I was just seeing if others had experienced similar with this model, to see if there was a "bad batch" of Vantage scopes perhaps? Seems not, so far... Anyone out there with a good 2nd-hand springer-rated scope for sale?! I'm looking for a Mildot reticule, preferably with x16 magnification and SF.... Thanks to you all. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq7jVyBfFqE" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq7jVyBfFqE Air Arms S510 US .22 Air Arms S410 .22 Weihrauch HW97KT .177 Weihrauch HW95 .177 |
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 04 May 2023 at 10:01am
| Don't hawk have a lifetime warrenty for any scope after 2018 |
Posted By: jwabfrog
Date Posted: 04 May 2023 at 12:36pm
| Hi Myson, I have a Nikko Stirling Nigheater 6-24x44 if that's of interest to you? Full mil dot reticle. Side focus. PM if interested and I can send you pics |
Posted By: RangerPete
Date Posted: 04 May 2023 at 1:06pm
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Hawke are usually excellent. I’d send it back and ask them to try find out what the problem is. Jawbfrog, I’m not sure if the night eater is springer rated? ------------- Walk quietly, but carry a big stick. |
Posted By: Myson
Date Posted: 04 May 2023 at 2:52pm
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Thanks again Gentlemen - great to have your thoughts on this. To answer some questions above: The Hawke's have a Lifetime Guarantee but only for faulty parts. If I have over-tightened the scope, warranty lost I'm afraid (according to the Dealer). The Dealer is sending pictures of my scope back to Hawke but he thinks they'll refuse to replace it because he can see some tube marks that imply over-tightening.  And thanks Jwabfrog - do you know if your NS scope is Springer-rated over 12 ft/lbs? I've not had this problem before (60 years of shooting!) so I'm a bit lost as to how I might have over-tightened the tube? I don't have a torque screwdriver - and they're rather expensive for the amount of use I'd have for it (!) - so I usually use common sense and instinctive feel with the Allen Keys! Guess I got it wrong this time? Must be getting old?! Nah!  ------------- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq7jVyBfFqE" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq7jVyBfFqE Air Arms S510 US .22 Air Arms S410 .22 Weihrauch HW97KT .177 Weihrauch HW95 .177 |
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 04 May 2023 at 3:16pm
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So are you thinking that you've overtightened the turret adjustment dials and compressed the springs or as you mentioned Allen keys that you've tightened the mounts to tight and damaged the tube. I was assuming you had over compressed the internal springs. |
Posted By: Myson
Date Posted: 04 May 2023 at 3:31pm
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Hi Kruza, The Dealer thinks I've over-tightened the Sportsmatch Rings - those eight small screws that hold the tops of the rings on to the 1" tube, either side of the turrets. He thinks the tube was dented inwards and that compression buggered the internals, causing the symptoms listed above. You can certainly see a small line on the side of the tube where the rings were.... and being aluminium, I guess it dents easily??? ------------- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq7jVyBfFqE" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq7jVyBfFqE Air Arms S510 US .22 Air Arms S410 .22 Weihrauch HW97KT .177 Weihrauch HW95 .177 |
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 04 May 2023 at 4:06pm
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OK. I've never used a tourqe meter on any of mine. And I have no dought they are way over the specs. Having said that it is about a 10 to 15min process to tighten them as I bring them in evenly, a small amount per Allen screw. Theory would have it that a strait edge or vernier would show any compression of the outside of the tube. My thinking from your description was that one of the springs involved in adjusting the elevation or windage,that hold the lens/crosshairs in place had stuffed out. That causes the hairs to move as they no longer hold tension and also affects how it feels adjusting them. ( one of my scopes up Hastings I'm sure I killed this way over tightening the windage on a blowy day to compensate ) I would check the tube to see if its compressed slightly around the mount area. A line could be from rotating the scope while adjusting it to sit vertical from a sharp edge on the mount or just being a tad tight when rotating it level prior to the final tweeting up. https://life.hawkeoptics.com/riflescope-alignment/ |
Posted By: mercs
Date Posted: 04 May 2023 at 6:38pm
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22 - 25 inch pounds for rings (ZeroTech scope manual) SportsMatch so you have chosen a good brand and you will get a great grip without over tightening. If separate rings then I push them together and tighten initially and check alignment with finger as a starting point. If there is any discrepancy then several additional steps are required before the scope should be installed. Misalignment will easily cause indent marks on the tube. Many rings come with single sided tape inside which can help avoid any issues. Should they not replace yours and you can retrieve the scope I would like to have a look, several manufacturers are close to no questions asked. i will review Hawke installation instructions but no replacement will not reflect well on Hawke in my opinion. Has anyone found an economical torque driver to recommend, tend to be a couple of hundred dollars when I was looking. Short end of hex key with thumb and forefinger only should be sufficient for the top half shells. Following is from zero tech.com.au
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Posted By: Myson
Date Posted: 05 May 2023 at 7:00am
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Many thanks Kruza and Mark - great feedback! I'm now waiting on the Dealer to discover if a replacement scope is granted by Hawke - or if I have to buy another scope (new or 2nd-hand). Whatever, when I fit a new scope, I'll be taking your advice above! Onwards and Upwards! I really appreciate all the good input from everyone above... great to have so many experienced airgunners helping me! ------------- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq7jVyBfFqE" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq7jVyBfFqE Air Arms S510 US .22 Air Arms S410 .22 Weihrauch HW97KT .177 Weihrauch HW95 .177 |
Posted By: KiwiTR6
Date Posted: 06 May 2023 at 8:35am
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These guys have a great range of torque screwdrivers. https://nz.element14.com/w/search/prl/results?st=torque+screwdriver I bought the Duratool with a 1-6 Nm range from them along with quite a bit of stuff over the last couple of years including airgun related items (torque screwdriver, duct seal and the latest, a dB meter). Freight on orders over $100 is free but most comes out of Aus and takes about a week although the duct seal came from the UK and was only a few days. Their range of products is huge and includes inexpensive through to top of the line brands. I particularly like their Extech products. I set my ring screws to 2Nm in steps, finger tight with the appropriate tool a little at a time to hold the reticle level, then 1.5Nm and then 2Nm with the torque screwdriver (you will probably need to buy a set of small bits to suit). I also apply low strength Loctite 222 to the threads and a small dab of E6000 glue to the dovetail at the clamp points (I was using Araldite but it's too hard to remove from the grooves) as the locking screws never line up the the barrel stop holes or they're too small. If the rings have single sided tape I remove it. In its place I use a 8-10mm strip of self-amalgamating tape laid at right angles to the scope top and bottom. It's not the easiest to keep in place as it doesn't adhere to anything but itself and it will squeeze out the side of the rings at points, but being silicon I figure it's good for several reasons. Firstly, it will take up any slight variance in the rings, second it provides a small amount of shock absorption, thirdly it grips the scope and ring surfaces better than the self adhesive tape, fourth it doesn't mark the scope and is easily removable (and reusable) and lastly it's cheap - on special for $5 at Supercheap. https://www.supercheapauto.co.nz/p/calibre-calibre-tape-it-self-fusing-silicone-tape---black-3m-x-25mm/395855.html across ------------- FX Wildcat MK111 BT Sniper .25 Walther Reign M2 .22 Evanix AR6 .22 FX Dreamline Classic .22 Cometa Fenix 400 .177 Weihrauch HW50 .177 Air Chief Junior .177 ($100 Challenge) |
Posted By: Pauly5
Date Posted: 06 May 2023 at 9:07am
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I bought a torque wrench set from a bike shop for about $90 a couple years ago, so Torpedo7 or similar might have something. It's surprising how little torque you really need, and I have been guilty of overtightening scope rings in the past,
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Posted By: jwabfrog
Date Posted: 06 May 2023 at 9:15am
| https://www.torpedo7.co.nz/products/TPTOWNNTWXXXXX/title/torque-wrench-with-bits?gclsrc=aw.ds&&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIyYbujYnf_gIVzXZ9Ch3Tdg_FEAQYBSABEgK5QvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds |
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 06 May 2023 at 9:59am
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That looks as dodgy as hell. Whats it rely on flex in the steel? |
Posted By: jwabfrog
Date Posted: 06 May 2023 at 11:59am
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Ha ha I guess so! Older style torque wrenches use the same visual bend-ometer so maybe not completely without merit |
Posted By: Myson
Date Posted: 06 May 2023 at 3:33pm
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Thanks again everyone! Excellent food for thoughts! ------------- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq7jVyBfFqE" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq7jVyBfFqE Air Arms S510 US .22 Air Arms S410 .22 Weihrauch HW97KT .177 Weihrauch HW95 .177 |