30cal accuracy issues
Printed From: Kiwi Airgunners
Category: General
Forum Name: Flub's General Discussion
Forum Description: General discussion goes in here.
URL: www.kiwiairgunners.co.nz/forum_posts.asp?TID=791
Printed Date: 18 May 2024 at 6:45pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 10.14 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: 30cal accuracy issues
Posted By: Freddiefx
Subject: 30cal accuracy issues
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2023 at 8:26pm
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Hi everyone. Forum newbie here. As a bit of a novelty I bought a Hatsan 30cal. I love its power and had read that it was pretty accurate, even straight out of the box. Now, I've put around 250 - 300 pellets through it and its accuracy sucks. Sometimes I think I've finally nailed it so I put the gun away. Next time I bring it out I struggle to get 4 inch groups at 25 meters. It seems very hold sensitive. Doesn't like artillery at all. Holding tightly improves the accuracy (more firmly at the trigger and shoulder, but less pressure up front). The trigger could do with some adjustment. All sorts of thoughts have gone through my mind. Something wrong with the gun, pellet issue, trigger not right, hold not correct, I'm out of ideas to be honest. I might get 3 shots to group then the next will fly off up to 3-4 inches away! Tried Jsb 44.75 grains, jsb 50.15 grains and Air boss 49 grain pellets. Anyone have any thoughts/suggestions? I've put the gun away for the moment in frustration. |
Replies:
Posted By: nunga
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2023 at 9:35pm
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Is it spring or vortex gas ram? ------------- 2nd place HP springer - WFTF World Championships 2014 |
Posted By: mercs
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2023 at 9:46pm
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Welcome from Taranaki, my carnivore is listed under reviews. Initially I struggled to get consistency but found I could move the barrel when latched so it had not been assembled correctly, accuracy of the replacement was immediately noticeable. I hold firmly against shoulder and then let the front move freely. Trigger remains at factory setting so not sure what improvements are possible. Happy to try a few things and run a few targets for comparison. Adjusting and using the cheek riser worked well for me. cheers
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Posted By: Billbobnz
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2023 at 9:47pm
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Good evening sir, yes I've been there done that with my hatsan .25cal First things to check as follows. Break the barrel and cock it. Holding the stock so the barrel points down. Check the barrel when you lift it up, does it swing freely back down or stay where you leave it. If is swings back down, the bolt that tightens the piviot point is too loose. Also at this point check if the barrel has any movement side to side. My .25 had a huge amount of play here and I had to shim the breech to remove this. Accuracy imporved from a 4" group at 20 to >1" once I sorted both these two issues. Next check the breech seal, the factory one compresses very fast so you may be loosing pressure out this when you shoot. Spare breech seals and piston seals can be purchased from custom air seals in Australia https://www.customairseals.com/product/hatsan-95-125-135-walther-breech-seal/ Next thing to check is if it's loosing power. If you don't have a chronograph just check if the POI is dropping at your zeroed distance over time. If this is happening the air in the vortex piston is leaking and will need to be rebuilt. I have all the gear to rebuild the piston for you if this is the case. My had to rebuild my piston after around 600-700ish shots so if it not this just be mindful of it in the future. You may not ever have and issue with it. Try the above out then report back. Feel free to PM me if you get stuck. |
Posted By: Ralph
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2023 at 9:24am
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Sorry to hear you are having issues with your .30cal Freddiefx. I have always liked the look of these rifles and have thought for awhile about getting one in .25cal. Yesteday I was in H&F at Botany and they have one there in .25. Did a lot of searching on the net last night and the issue of lack of quality control is consistent. I'm too old to be mucking aroung resctifying a manufacturers faulty workmanship. I want to be able to take an air rifle out of the box and shoot it. Decided to sleep on it and after reading the above posts this morning I will give it a miss. Timely posts, thanks ------------- Sig Sauer ASP20 .177 |
Posted By: Pauly5
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2023 at 2:50pm
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Hi FreddieFX, welcome to the forum. Looks like some good advise from other owners. I've never owned one of those, but have owned other airguns, and it is often the tolerances that maketh a gun. Let us know how you get on.
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Posted By: Freddiefx
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2023 at 4:48pm
| As far as I know they are all gas piston. Having said that the ones sold here in NZ seem to be missing the "vortex" on the barrel. So - I'm not sure. |
Posted By: Ralph
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2023 at 4:51pm
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From what I've seen the Carnivore 135's in NZ are all springers but stand to be corrected. ------------- Sig Sauer ASP20 .177 |
Posted By: Freddiefx
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2023 at 4:51pm
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Yep, I found it to be totally inconsistent using the artillery hold. Sounds like you discovered a firm grip at the shoulder works best too. Good to hear confirmation. Will try playing with the cheek riser too. Thanks for the tip. So you actually had to get a replacement gun? |
Posted By: Freddiefx
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2023 at 4:59pm
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Hi Billbobznz. Thanks for the reply. I'll run through your checklist over the weekend. Hopefully it's one of those things. So, check for side to side movement with the barrel fully cocked? Thanks for your kind offer to help rebuild the piston if necessary. Will definitely keep it in mind. Cheers. It's pretty frustrating because a lot of the Pyramid Air forum reviews say its accurate straight out of the box. Makes me suspicious - maybe I got a bad one. |
Posted By: Freddiefx
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2023 at 5:01pm
| Thanks for the welcome! Yes, definitely great advise. Will certainly update after I've had another play with it. Cheers. |
Posted By: Freddiefx
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2023 at 5:05pm
| Why I thought they were all gas piston was a review on YouTube. The narrator said they were springers pre production then Hatsan made the decision to go gas piston. Maybe that only applies to the US. Also, I asked the question of Delta Mike in Invercargill. They said gas piston. I dunno. Confusion reigns! |
Posted By: mercs
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2023 at 7:15pm
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My 135 is a spring powered and that is the model I was after. Yes first one was quickly returned and replaced within three days including delivery. I look for the longest warranty and judge on manufacturers response, I expect to return a small percentage of the mass manufacturers products and never hesitate to do so. I prefer a face to face sale and am very well served by our local Magnum Sports store here at Stratford. With optics especially I have moved to lifetime warranty products and managed to stay in economical price range due to very competitive market i expect. I respect the warranty and follow manufacturers requirements for the required duration. Prompt replacements that have impressed. Gamo rifle and scope Hatsan rifle Stealth scope Tasco scope |
Posted By: Ralph
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2023 at 7:53pm
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Mercs from what I can see the Hatsan warranty in NZ is 12mnths. Have you had any other issues appart from the loose barrel on the first rifle ? ------------- Sig Sauer ASP20 .177 |
Posted By: Billbobnz
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2023 at 8:33pm
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If it doesn't have vortex it's spring. I thought all the nz ones were vortex but obviously not. Hatsan vortex pistons are the only airguns using air in the piston, therefore they are able to be rebuilt. Gas rams are normally nitrogen filled. I brought mine from airrifle.co.nz all theirs are listed as vortex versions. They have been out of stock for a long time so wonder if they lost the agency for Hatsan. I enquired several times for spare parts and never heard back..... |
Posted By: Freddiefx
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2023 at 10:44pm
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So what you guys are saying is if it doesn't have vortex on the barrel it's a springer? I'm not disagreeing but I am confused. This link is to a nz airgun website. It shows the rifle I have. The barrel doesn't say vortex, but in their spiel it says...vortex. Is there a way to tell without pulling the gun apart? https://airrifle.co.nz/hatsan/135-qe-30.html |
Posted By: Billbobnz
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2023 at 10:56pm
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Have a peek underneath where you can see the cocking arm going to the piston, you may be able to see a spring if it's the spring version but you will probably need to take the stock off. If you do take the stock off take detailed photos o photos and upload them for us to see |
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2023 at 11:02pm
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Wouldn't the cocking sound tell you? There's no way you can miss the sound of the gas ram on the sig compared to either the tx or gamo spring I had. |
Posted By: Freddiefx
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2023 at 9:02am
| I also have a Diana ntec magnum and there doesn't seem to be any noticeable difference in the sound between it and the hatsan when cocking. |
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2023 at 10:03am
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Ive been looking all over the Web and I can't find a definitive way to tell with out taking the stock off. My next sujestions would be get the serial number and write to hatsan customer service and ask them If they stopped making spring versions they should be able to tell from serial number. Everything I've read on the spring version seems to be as good as gas ram. |
Posted By: nunga
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2023 at 10:06am
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When you fire the hatsan in he spring version you can tell. They vibrate after firing and unless you take it apart and full the s[ring with grease it will be noticeable and the fact that the stock is against your cheek you can hear the "twang" sound it makes. The vortex piston just makes a "thud" sound like a hammer hitting a thick bit of wood. ------------- 2nd place HP springer - WFTF World Championships 2014 |
Posted By: Freddiefx
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2023 at 10:33am
Well, its conclusive. Mines a springer. Photo attached. (Not the best quality but all I can get out of my tablet). Bit annoyed actually. Told by dealer it was gas piston. From what I gather now, the wooden stock guns are springers, the synthetic stock gas piston. Are spring guns any lesser than gas piston? Haven't had one for many years. I understand you can't leave them cocked like the gas pistons, but other than that I've no clue. 
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Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2023 at 10:42am
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If you've brought it off a site or shop that is advertising it as the gas ram, take a screenshot of the ad. If they given you a reciet that says vortex keep it. Tell them you want what they advertised. By law they have to provide you with it. Or ask for a couple of free tins of pellets in compisation. |
Posted By: Ralph
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2023 at 11:29am
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From the research I've done the power/velocity is generally the same for a gas ram and springer Hatsan 135. ------------- Sig Sauer ASP20 .177 |
Posted By: Freddiefx
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2023 at 11:42am
| Are there differences in techniques re shooting and accuracy? Hold preferences etc? |
Posted By: Ralph
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2023 at 1:09pm
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Interesting reading https://www.reddit.com/r/airguns/comments/qf83pk/the_hatsan_135_qe_year_one_review_part_1/ ------------- Sig Sauer ASP20 .177 |
Posted By: Billbobnz
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2023 at 5:45pm
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Yes I would be hitting up the dealer and sending them that photo as proof. |
Posted By: mercs
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2023 at 8:39pm
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My .30 Carnivore has been trouble free since February 2020 and in excess of 1000 pellets. It gets a wipe down with Ballistol after use and a drop of oil on any pivot points after each 250 pellets.
I had checked out numerous websites and reviews from both American and British users so was able to define spring as power source and walnut stock which was a real departure for me as I normally look for gas piston powered with easy care composite stocks. I was given a .30 off the rack to look at and get the feel of it. Box has very little information but I was fully informed at point of sale. I was advised of lack of pellet choice and use JSB Match Diablo Exact 2.9 grammes 44.7 grains dome head 7.62mm    |