Down the rabbit hole
Printed From: Kiwi Airgunners
Category: General
Forum Name: Flub's General Discussion
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URL: www.kiwiairgunners.co.nz/forum_posts.asp?TID=741
Printed Date: 23 Nov 2024 at 6:51pm
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Topic: Down the rabbit hole
Posted By: kruzaroad
Subject: Down the rabbit hole
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 4:41pm
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Down the rabbit hole with cuterabbit. |
Replies:
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 4:45pm
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So haven't you shot your umerex before cute rabbit? This surly can't be the first time you've shot it. How are you holding it that it makes your arm tired? Are you tucking your elbow into body to give it support. |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 9:13pm
 emm，not really... elbow not in the body.Just keep shooting for about 15 rounds then my arm get tired... Why make a new topic for this, LoL ------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 9:45pm
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Only use the rest for sight in. And it takes too long to set up a table, seat and gun rest then shoot. My landlord won't let them stay in the yard over night and it is rainning heavily so neither do I. Just some quick shot on targets. That is Okish before. But sometime try to plinking for a longer time, and find that too tired to hold it anyway. Used to hold it normally, like two tri-angle with two arms to fix the position of the rifle. After learned the some special hold for piston-air, working as let the left arm as the gun rest and relax the right arm to pull the triger, I just find it won't help anyway? When I keep shooting, I just grab that gun with my left hand and cock, load and triger it with my right hand. So it is about 20mins that the rifle won't leave my left hand and I find it is too heavy for me somehow. By the way, I was OK with the stalker jr. but the surgemax feels even 1.5 times heavier than my friend's gamo whisper. What I mean is that the hold won't help as if you let the gun sliding on the rest or your left hand (as a rest) with the recoil, that is a cool idea. But the thing I am facing is that if my left arm a little bit tired and won't be steady as a real gun rest, the sliding with the recoil can lead to a real big movement on the muzzle.  And, sorry to let you feel annoying. And thanks for all the advice and guidings from mates here. However, that is a real situation to a self-learning beginner I think... No pretending to be pro and be quiet like knowing everything, that won't help me learn more. Believe or not, one of my friends still not believe that even a cheap rifle has a rifled barrel as well after I tell him that I have checked and discussed on this forum. And one of my friends who grab a gamo whisper from guncity with sighted-in service even don't know he is paying an extra for that service and he think gamo works so better than the weirach he bought at F&H(without any sight-in service) is because the design and quility. Another just bought one before the covid lock down and never test it and don't know it needs sight-in. He told me that he just take 3 shots into the wood, don't know where the pellets flying to and then think it is too loud for neighbors and put it away after buying. So that's the level around this country for people who have one or few collections of air rifle... ------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 9:53pm
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It just stops you starting up lots of threads about differnt stuff. I did the same for me. Makes it a bit less of lots a threads about stuff some, of it that has been covered on this site before. Also lot of the ppl here are many years into air rifles and newbies like you and me tend to ask the wrong questions in the wrong thread. It stops that too, but is still accessible to everyone. When you hold your rife try grabbing it at its point of balance on the stock. Then with the butt very lightly against shoulder, move your elbow on the hand you are holding the rifle with onto your hip. This will help take the weight of the rifle by pushing it down wards into your hip. You will notice that as you aim the gun is going up and down with your breathing. Get the rifle on target and when you are on target and getting ready to pull the trigger hold your breath. This will stop the breathing movement and make the rifle steadier. You should be holding the rifle the same place every time and same way everytime. If you don't it will shoot differnt everytime. Spring or gas ram rifles usually need to be held the same place and same way to be accurate. Hold the gun very lightly, it will not jump out of your hands or anything, they do not have enough power to do that in the smaller calabar range. It will need practice. It is not usually something you pick up strait away. Once you have it sussed, your shooting should be more accurate. You can adjust what I've said to suit you, but that's the basics of the arti-something hold. It may be that you find a way that suits you better, or maybe your gun isn't that hold sensitive. But if you have a lot of kickback it is a good way to start controlling it. That kickback will make you shoot not accurate everytime you use it if you don't hold it the same way every time. Thats the other reason for using this thread. People can give long explanation and it doesn't fill up a differnt thread. It's easier for you to look up stuff later that you asked because you know the answer is here. |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 9:56pm
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Oh, and thanks for the notice of elbow on the body. Maybe that's the point. Just forget to hold like that for the surgemax is too big LoL. If you check the shape. You will find it with a pistol hold stock which makes it very light on the rear but a full covered rail on the cylinder (I guess that's the reason of the weight) which makes it very heavy on the mid and front. If I put my elbow on my body to hold it, my left hand is near to where the triger is and I can feel the rifle try to leaning toward a little bit. By the way, I am about 1.8m high. and this problem is not an universal one. I think it is only for this model design... ------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 10:20pm
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Your arm is probly not use to holding a rifle up. You will have to just keep using it and it will get stronger. Some rifles are heavy. I've swapped a very good rifle for another lighter very good rifle, because it was to heavy to carry hunting all day for me. If your arm gets tired have a rest. GAMO are light rifles. Some people love them some people don't. They are not the best rifle for target shooting,in my opinion . You may have to go through a few rifles to find one you like. Don't give up on using the artillery hold as it very difficult and it will take a while to get use to it. In the beginning it will not be very accurate because you haven't practiced it. If your arm gets tired have a break. When I did target shooting more years ago than you probly are old, one of my shots took 21 minutes. I stopped and rested, I had to stop and breath because I had held my breath for to long more than once. But it worked. I put 5 shots into a group that was barely bigger than a pellet hole at 10m. ( they did ask me to shoot a bit faster after that shot) Target shooting is about technique and presison. It is also a about the gun if you want to compete. You will need a good gun or make your gun a good gun by changing things to work better. At the moment you can pratice your shooting technique with your guns and get that right, but probly will have to get better guns to compete in target shooting. For fun target shooting they are ok. It takes a lot of time and a lot of learning to shoot springer air rifles. It takes a lot of pellets. You are right to ask stuff, you need to, to learn. Its just the beginning, don't rush, don't worry if things arnt happening fast it takes time. |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 10:20pm
Upload a old pic of my stalker jr. here ------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 10:27pm
| You can try putting the rifle on finger tips at the front. It means your hand is straiter and that means your fingers are supporting the rifle further forward. It is how I use to target shoot, I don't like it for hunting, and don't use it much anymore because I mostly hunt so pratice how I hold it hunting. |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 10:33pm
This is the pic shows the issue. not resigned to only use Jr. size LoL But can't reach the bal. point with my left elbow on body somehow LoL. and not used to let the rifle sliding freely on my hand. Used to hold them just like lying hold, two arm as tri-angle to lock it so tight and once locked only moving sight by twisting waist... ------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 10:42pm
This is the best 5shot group after a really rough sight-in with 4x20scope the time I just got it. Never reach to that level after buying a 4x32 second hand scope for it. So sad... ------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 10:45pm
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For Stalk Jr. Have to say it is really a cheap but full with fun rifle. It is light that can even fire it with single right hand like a pistol if regardless the accuracy. Really friendly for beginner and only $119 (green one is only $99 even) at guncity now...
------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 10:47pm
Upload any pictures you like here. Maybe pratice and upload some target pictures too. We can tell alot from targets. If you upload a target and say every time I shoot it is on the target, but we look at the picture and the shots are all over the place and none are together we might go, that could be the pellet you use. (pellets make a big difference to how a gun shoots) The 4 tins at bottom are the pellets my guns like. 2 in 177, 2 in 22. The top ones are pellets that I've tried that don't shoot as good in my guns, and there's still about 5 other brands on top of that I've tried that weren't as good. None of them are wad cutters ( flat nose pellets that target shooters use) |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 10:52pm
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Wow, you have tried so many types of pellets. For me, only the flat nose $15.99 .177 guncity brand now...haven't try others. Bought one box of spike nose recommended by fishing shop staff, but never try it, only for hunting I think?
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Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 10:57pm
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Help if you measure the size of the group from the furtherest two holes up and down and same from side to side. Try the holding your hand strait or on finger tips to get closer to point of balance. You can also try adding some weight to the back of rifle to make it more balanced. Your junior are rifle probly does not have a much kick, that stops the gun moving as much. Target shooters will tune thier air rifle down in fps so the kick is less and more accurate. |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 11:05pm
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Thanks you mean modify it's cylinder to down the fps or use a heavier pellet? emm, some day I want to try the Hatsan .30 M130. It is only 550fps though .30 pellet. Wondering how it feels. think that is a real efficient rifle that hunters will really use for hunting at old ages? ------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 11:13pm
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I am not a hunting guy but want to try dif kinds of air rifle with no FAL needed. If only for good accurate performance, then I think some competive PCP is better. That goes too pro and costy for me.
------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 11:35pm
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No air rifle pellet is for self defence. You would be better off hitting them with the rifle. If you are shooting short distance paper targets, try a few differnt flat nose pellets. (that is what they are made for and tend to be accurate) But try a few differnt brands of pellets one might work better. After that a round nose pellet would probly be your next best choice. If you are just shooting targets you don't need pointy or hollow nose pellets, or ones with spikes on the end. They are not as accurate for target shooting and just a waste of money. Look up what pellets people like. I tried a lot of cheap pellets and now buy better quality ones. But having said that some guns will shoot really good with cheap pellets. Check your pellets for damage before you shoot them. A damaged pellet will not shoot strait. Especially if the skirt (back of the pellet) is damaged. Thats me for now.Im going to bed. Hopefully some of the other ppl will help you with information. Listen to them. A lot of these guys target shoot, a lot of these guys build guns and tune their own guns, they know what they are talking about and are way more qualified than me to give you good advise. 2 things you need to get out of your head. 1: having a speedy pellet or high fps. It means nothing for you at the moment is what a gun shop uses to sell you a gun. Later on you'll learn how to use it for seeing what arc your pellet takes, or how much energy a pellet has down range but for now you should learn the basic stuff. 2: using an air gun for self defence is not something that you should consider when buying an air rifle. If you use an air rifle in self-defense your going to get in more trouble than you want with the police. They will treat it the same as using a powder rifle. Everytime someone uses a air rifle for stupid stuff like that it gets closer to us loosing the right to use air rifles with out a license. You could very well end up with someone coming back with a proper gun and you won't win that fight. Its not hard to tell a break barrel air rifle from a powder gun. If you pointed one at me I'd take it off you wrap the butt around your head several times then call the cops on you. We are responcable gun users and will alienate you pretty fast if you keep going on about it. This isn't America. I'm off to bed. Good night |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 11:53pm
 Yep. that is why I never use the spike pellet. Never been to USA. But heard that their gun issue is serious... but yes, still can see that kind of recommendations on youtube, so sad...
------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2023 at 4:08pm
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just have a hold of Storeger RX40... still feel heavy. Can feel the weight so clearly... Maybe my arm is not strong enough  ------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2023 at 4:29pm
| Maybe. |
Posted By: FPM
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2023 at 10:51pm
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I suggest quickly rethinking this "self defense" thing. Especially if you want to get an FAL at some point. Also I'd suggest a 22cal if you want to go up in size.
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Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2023 at 1:22am
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While. if you check some other chats, you will know that I am not for that with air gun. I get people are sensitive to this topic especially here. and I am not interested to continue this. So let's end it here. I just saying this on above paragraph because that's what the selling ads implied to me... not my opinion...
------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2023 at 1:31am
 Saw you saying that have a Gamo magnum.However, I may only can afford to upgrade a Gamo fusion Gen3i in the future... Remember someone said his magnum had ruined 2 scopes due to recoil... don't know why the kickback can smash the glasses of scope, but maybe as he said? Also want to try Hatsan M130 .30 someday when I have surplus... ------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2023 at 8:47am
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I don't think it breaks the glass, I think the inside bits get shocked loose and when you shoot they move so it doesn't hold its aim point accurate. Thats why you can get scopes that are air rifle rated. |
Posted By: nunga
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2023 at 10:28am
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It doesnt brake the glass, it shakes the internal parts loose like the cross hairs and the focus and will not hold on zero. you should check if the scope is air gun rated or not. the recoil from the piston is very hard on scopes and even more so on the low end quality guns. You get what you pay for. ------------- 2nd place HP springer - WFTF World Championships 2014 |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2023 at 1:43pm
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wow,so I should try to save my Stealth scope from Beeman 16015GP ------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2023 at 2:14pm
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Probly not a silly idea. A spare scope is always handy in case one fails. I kept my gamo scope, and are using on 1322 till I can afford another one, after the gamo killed the $300 gun City air rifle rated one I put on it. |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2023 at 10:39am
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actually still can't understand what nunga say. since everyone say so, I just assume that piston rifle are really not friendly to any scope ------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2023 at 11:29am
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Do you spend any time researching stuff? A rifle scope has moving parts in it. Those moving parts are made to take recoil (you know the unbelievable recoil of your umerex) In a powder rifle they are made to take a backwards recoil, because that is all a powder rifle has, backwards recoil into your shoulder. In a spring or gas ram air rifle there are two types of recoil, a forward one as the piston hits the end of the cylinder and the backwards one like a powder rifle has. As a powder rifle scope is only made to take the backwards recoil and not the forwards recoil, this means if you put a powder rifle scope on on a spring or gas piston rifle everytime you shoot it, it will get a jolt forward as the piston hits the end of the cylinder, which the scope has not been made to take. This will eventually shake the moving bits inside and they will come loose. When this happens the the cross hairs will move and won't be where you set them too. You won't hit where you are aiming because they have moved. In an air rifle rated scope they know that there is a forward and backward shock to the scope, so they make the moving bits in the scope to be able to take the forwards and backwards jolt that happens in a spring or gas piston air rifle. This means that the moving bits in the scope don't shake loose and the scope stays on target. Thats a very basic description. Get on the Internet and look it up. Guns like the gamo magnums have a very heavy recoil and are known to break (shake the moving bits loose) scopes that arnt well made even if they are for air rifles . Before you ask, an air rifle rated scope can be used on a powder rifle. It is not a good idea to use powder rifle scope on an air rifle. Pcp and pump up air rifles do not have to use a air rifle rated scope as they do not have a big heavy piston crashing into the end the cylinder when firing a shot. So that don't have the a big forward jolt like a spring or gas piston. |
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2023 at 11:50am
| Does that make sence to you? |
Posted By: Pauly5
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2023 at 6:31pm
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It's great that there's lots of activity here guys, but just a word of warning not to imply or suggest self defence as a reason to use our airguns. I'm sure any gun related forum is monitored, and so please stop and think before posting. Really enjoying all the talk though. |
Posted By: Billbobnz
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2023 at 7:13pm
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Cuterabbit, 3 things for you to try when you are next target practicing. 1. Push your shoulder slightly forwards and nestle the but of the stock in where your collarbone is. By doing this it will hold the but of the stock from moving during the shot cycle. If you have your shoulder relaxed and backwards, it allows too much movement resulting in shots spreading downrange. 2. Keep both eyes open. Get a cheap pair of sunglasses and put tape over the eye your not looking through the scope with and pop the glass out on your scope eye. By keeping both eyes open you get a clearer image through the scope. 3. Make sure all the bolts attaching the action to the stock are tight. Re check these every couple of weeks. Also once you have cocked the rifle, hold the rifle horizontal and move the barrel up and where ever you let it go, the barrel should not fall back down and point towards the ground. If the barrel is too loose you will need to tighten the bolt that the barrel piviots on. This will help eliminate any movement and also greatly increase your accuracy. Check your scope mounts too. Let us know if these tips help? |
Posted By: Billbobnz
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2023 at 8:19pm
| You also mentioned that your umarex is heavier than your friends Gamo. Use the extra weight that your Umarex has to your advantage. A heavier rifle will generally shoot more accuratly than a lighter rifle for target shooting. You will get used to the weight. |
Posted By: FPM
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2023 at 10:59pm
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Also get hearing protection if you get a Gamo Magnum. |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2023 at 11:15pm
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Thanks. So if not magnum, air rifle rated scope won't be easy to be ruined by piston rifle?
------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2023 at 11:19pm
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thats a brilliant idea of sun-glasses haha ------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2023 at 11:21pm
Just checked my Stalker Jr. and Umarex Surgemax's barrel again. They are rifled but looks like with 0 twist rate, straight rifle lines??? Shell them be twisted lines just like lines in real gun barrels??? ------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2023 at 11:29pm
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Not as likely to be ruined. My roadster wasn't a magium and it still killed scopes. It's about how hard it recoils. It had a 5mm washer at the back of the gas ram I took out which made it a bit of a forward shock. Best bet is to either see what scopes other ppl have used that are good ( like in mercs review) or spend money on a higher quality scope. Which can easily be 3x what your junior cost you. Start looking at scope reviews along with all the other air rifle stuff your learning. |
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2023 at 11:35pm
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Do you just write stuff for attention? Why would they make a barrel with strait rifling. It would be cheaper to put no rifling in and it would do the same thing. How old are you cute rabbit, just out of a point of interest. |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2023 at 12:03am
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Well. Not really The whole story is that my friend I mentioned above insist no rifled barrel in cheap air guns( he has a CR600 CO2). So I took my two rifles to show him. And this time he insist that's not rifle lines...? because it is straight... We use flash light to look into it as deep as we and seems straight... I said maybe the twist rate is very very super low so seems like straight... and He laughed loud... And yes, it is not like pics of real gun rifle lines online. Maybe lines are straight at the both ends but that makes no sense??? ------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2023 at 12:10am
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I'm over it Your trolling. I'm pretty sure I got a goid idea who you are too. |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2023 at 12:28am
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emmm，whats that mean? ------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: FPM
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2023 at 12:51am
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I am new here and have tried to be polite to everyone and not get involved in pre-existing issues. But I must say, CuteRabbit, some of your posts do not make sense in the context of this conversation and others appear to be all over the place. While you managed to get a couple of air rifles because you don't require a license at this time (Unlike Australia) you should still consider a lot of us are licensed firearms holders or mix in these circles. And if you come across here or IRL as a bit odd - this will create issues for you. This is especially so with the increased "fit and proper person" thing and the recent legislative changes affecting clubs. If you later want to get an FAL you will need to be a member of a club or have someone who has an FAL to vouch for you. So in the nicest way I suggest you think before you post and be on the level with folks here.
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Posted By: nunga
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2023 at 1:01am
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I also try to stay out of things and let the forum flow, but i am getting a little annoyed with some of the stuff you are posting as well, If you keep it up you may not have access to this forum for much longer. ------------- 2nd place HP springer - WFTF World Championships 2014 |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2023 at 1:25pm
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Post this issue again because failed to convince my friend... and I won't afford a pinhole camera to check the barrels deep inside... so just post it for a quick answer and some solid evidence. OK, then. Seems really over react at the rifled barrel things?If so, gonna trust you guys. I think he just too proud to be convinced then?  Just like you guys. I am annoyed to chat with him, every time end up that he boast how powerful an AKM is, saying the 7.62 is over 10cm big... I try to explain that the 10cm big should be the case not the bullet on the top for 0.3 is nearly 7.62mm as I checked online. Seems like he just try to say how lame my and his air rifles are...so tired to convince him Anyway, I am serious looking for an answer while you guys feels a trolling or something? Maybe I just should give up to chat with my bros about air rifle things because they refuse to study nor believe...
 ------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2023 at 1:35pm
Still too spreading, lack of accuracy with my surgemax. Standing normal hold, no artillery hold. Gonna try to re sight-in it and use gun rest and tripod to shoot someday later when I get spare time. Wondering would be the reason that my surgemax and scope are from trademe 2nd hand. Should I sell them and buy a brand new one at gun city? my Stalker Jr. new from guncity seems more accurate? ------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2023 at 1:45pm
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Australia is more restrict? That is really a bad news... Seems NZ always tend to keep similar with AUS... Thanks for your info. about FAL by the way.
------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2023 at 2:41pm
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No I would say the reason is despite being given advice on how to hold it and recommended to look up artillery hold, you haven't listened or spent enough time practicing it. Could be pellets also but they seem to be side by side on a few shots. If it shoots where you aim from a rested position (assuming you are holding it correct in the rest) you may well be pulling the trigger badly and making the rifle pull to one side. (Though if it was windy that may be why but over 12m not sure that would matter) If you don't want to pratice the artillery hold, or listen to the other advice you have been given on how to hold a springer, you'd be better off selling your springers and getting a pump air rifle. They more friendly for shooting. |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2023 at 2:52pm
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No artillery hold for now. Still have job so not too much time for practicing, sadly. Tried artillery hold, but also normal hold like before. The 5 groups posted at page2 is the one when I just got it with a 4x20scope, and haven't heard of Artillery hold by that time. So just try to keep same to reach that level again. Maybe that group is accurate for my green-hand luck? not sure now. By the way, as some mates said it is monitored by G. I gonna delete S-D words and parts above. The first time you replied I just realised the sensitivity but seems everyone come later then want to reply that it's so wrong to put that word here . I think that somehow is a repeatly emphasizing of that word. So delete it. And no more mention it, guys...
------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: J-S
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2023 at 3:08pm
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standing shooting is the least steady, so if you are wanting to sight in a rifle i would try to get a chair and table and shoot with elbows rested on the table to be stable, ow even a box with rolled up towel to rest the rifle on. To really see the accuracy, and consistency, you need it as still as possible. ------------- https://www.instagram.com/js_airguns/" rel="nofollow - J S Airguns Air Arms TX200('s) Theoben Sirocco HW77 FWB 300s Webley Patriot One or two others... Current projects: Too many.. |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2023 at 3:10pm
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yes. will sight-in again with my gun rest. Just need to find a time to set up all those table, chair and gunrest at my landlord yard... ------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: J-S
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2023 at 3:15pm
Once you are pretty well sighted in and have found a pellet it likes (the flat head pellets should perform pretty well in the lower power rifle), you can shoot other possitions knowing that if the grouping is big its likely the shooter not the gun - so will improve with practice ------------- https://www.instagram.com/js_airguns/" rel="nofollow - J S Airguns Air Arms TX200('s) Theoben Sirocco HW77 FWB 300s Webley Patriot One or two others... Current projects: Too many.. |
CuteRabbit wrote:Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2023 at 5:23pm
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that's right. the sight-in issue should not impact the spread of a group, only where it aiming at? So gonna put it onto my gun rest and see the spread again. ------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2023 at 7:32pm
   Doing a little bit further research about rifle lines. According to the online answer. Looking or camera deep into the barrel is not a good idea to find the twist rate. Usually we only need to look at the angle between those lines and the muzzle. the larger the twist rate is, the smaller the angle is than 90. If the rifle line is a straight type, then the rifle line is exactly vertical to the muzzle like pic1 shows. If this info is correct, then my two rifles' barrel is with straight lines or very low twist rate as hardly to say that the angel is not vertical... Any idea mates. Just post this as I am serious with this very basic question. no trolling. My wild guess is with a very limit depth sight, it is hard to tell the difference of the angel of 85 and vertical 90. so maybe with a relative low twist rate are those barrels. ------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2023 at 7:52pm
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Go and get a cleaning rod for your gun barrel. It's got to have a handel that let the cleaning rod turn as it goes down the barrel. Put a bit of tape on it, make sure the that you have a little bit sticking up. Push the cleaning rod down the barrel (make sure it has the white cleaning swab on it and it's a snug fit in the barrel) when the bit of tape has done one full circle stop. Put another bit of tape right where the cleaning rod enters the barrel. Pull out the cleaning rod. Measure the distance from the tape you put on where the cleaning rod entered the barrel. That will be your twist rate for the barrel. It will be 1( the one is the the tape going around once) in whatever the length you measure is Here's an example : you put the first bit of tape on then push the cleaning rod in till the tape turns once. You mark it then pull it out and measure it. Lets say the length when you measure it is 17inches you the have a 1:17 twist rate. Your pellet will turn one time in 17inchs when going down the barrel. Doesn't matter if the barrel is longer or anything that is the twist rate. |
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2023 at 7:54pm
| I'll see if I can find a video on Web 4 you. |
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2023 at 7:58pm
| https://youtu.be/nJS3tb01NU0 |
Posted By: J-S
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2023 at 9:19pm
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Modern pellet rifles all have rifled barrels. They don’t have straight lines, as they need to make the pellet twist. So you’ll find either angle / twist rifling or smooth bore. Smooth bore likely only guns like Daisy Red Rider BB gun ------------- https://www.instagram.com/js_airguns/" rel="nofollow - J S Airguns Air Arms TX200('s) Theoben Sirocco HW77 FWB 300s Webley Patriot One or two others... Current projects: Too many.. |
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2023 at 9:27pm
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I've also been looking at strait rifling it's a shotgun thing. Also used in muzzle loaders that are shooting ball. Stops uneven pressure in on ball in muzzle loader and supposedly tightens shot out of a shot gun. It is not a rifle thing.Good to see you looking up stuff cuterabbit. Youll need to be more specific in your searches. Wikipedia is OK but bit general. |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2023 at 10:26pm
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Thanks, that is a brilliant idea. By the way, I haven't clean my guns since I got them. Should buy a clean set someday. ------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2023 at 10:57pm
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Before you do, be aware that a lot of ppl don't think you should use cleaning rods in air rifles and pull throughs are thier choice. Some ppl say you don't clean an air rifle barrel till it's accuracy goes. After you clean it will will need to fire a 20 odd shots through it to relead the barrel (that's how many I do) You can look up cleaning air rifle barrels on Web. Don't just read one, you need to read a few as there are a few differnt reasons why people think differnt things. I'll be interested to see what the twist rate is on your rifle. Check it's not on barrel, but I think that's more cartridge rifles. Also the pellets out of air rifles are can fly strait without rifling thier shape is very stable, however the twist helps to over come the air making the pellet unstable as it pushes past as it leaves the barrel. Has other advantages in flight too. If your rifle has strait rifling by some wierd chance I'd think about changing barrels. Its something for ball shot which is a totally differnt dynamic for flight. |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2023 at 11:26pm
 Cool. and ppl means people?------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2023 at 11:27pm
| Yes |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2023 at 11:44am
 Set up table and chair, re-sight in... start raining... 6shots group after sight in, with gun-rest shell on table. Recoil is heavy, I can feel the shell moving and table shaking... ------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2023 at 12:40pm
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Do you have a starp across the back of the rifle? Do you use the front strap? Have you tried differnt pellets? What pellets are you using? How big are the groups? Definitely a lot better than the last target. |
Posted By: Billbobnz
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2023 at 1:16pm
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Cuterabbit, you should try a few different pellets. Get flat nose (which I think you already have) and domed/diablo pellets. Looking at the target you have shot and looking at the paper tears the pellets may be tumbling or spiralling when they hit. Therefore there isn't a clean punch through the paper. (Others may be able to comment on this) Once you have a selection of pellets. Do 5 shot of each pellet on their own target and look for grouping and how clean the holes. |
Posted By: Billbobnz
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2023 at 1:21pm
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This is how to read your shots Blue is your group, red are what we call fliers (generally caused by a damaged pellet) or a poor shot or form. The purple arrows point to the paper tear I was talking about earlier and most likely caused by a off balance pellet.  Generally with myself. If I do a poor shot it's because I've flinched or closed my eyes when I've taken the shot. |
Posted By: Billbobnz
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2023 at 1:30pm
| Buy a H&N sample pack of pellets. And see high quality flat nose (go to young's air guns on dominion road for these) |
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2023 at 1:33pm
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Paper tear may also be the target not held firm against the backing board. Looks like from top pic that it's only held on by couple of pegs and is paper. |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2023 at 5:15pm
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Thanks. Doing a lot adjustment and finally find out that the scope is leaning toward right becasue the srews on each mount side are not equally tightened... So the former sight-in work won't fix this problem totally. Re do it and will try flat nose and round nose tomorrow if not rainning. Flat nose- guncity Round nose- Winchester (made in Spain so is good?) Will try: rest-sandbag normoal standing an alternative pose of artillery hold (fold left arm, use the elbow to hold the gun, left hand grabing right wrist rather than use left hand to hold it)
------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: FPM
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2023 at 1:28am
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I bought a new BSA scope recently which was factory fitted on its rail mount. But I thought I would check it with my Accutech level and sure enough it was off. I suggest you consider this if you don't already have one: https://www.guncity.com/accutech-reticle-level-kit-379898 I don't bother with a cleaning set. Just Rem Oil and paper towels. If your rifle has a factory fitted and fixed moderator like the Gamo and BSA, then bore cleaning is a risky proposition. Personally, I don't bother. Its not like there is combustion as in a powder rifle. I have a safe dehumidifier which I pull out every week or so and plug in overnight. Definitely an item worth having if your rifles are stored in an enclosed location like a safe (as they should be).
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Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2023 at 8:18am
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I use a string line with a heavy weight which I line the vertical cross hair up with, and a string line bubble level on the rifle on a flat machined face(usually one on top of rifle somewhere) for setting scope. Have used the edge of builders level instead of string line. Though what you suggest is a way more practical solution, and can be used to make sure you arnt canting rifle when shooting. |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2023 at 3:10pm
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thanks,gonna visit guncity someday recently I think ------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2023 at 3:19pm
I think I didn't make it clearly, this pic is what i say ------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2023 at 3:22pm
I filled my sandbag with newspaper, which is too light... Also the table is too low that I can merely put my cheek on to the stock... ------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2023 at 3:23pm
elbow hold is stable but seems my neck is not long enough to put my cheek on stock easily... ------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2023 at 3:24pm
 All groups with flatnose ------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2023 at 3:26pm
6shots, 2flier ------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2023 at 3:44pm
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By the way, tried a brand new surgemax. I am happy with my second hand one becasue the new one seems 1.5times harder to cock and louder... and the maybe because it is cheap, the safe is very very tight on the new surgemax. Cannot open it with hand, and we finally use a lever to open it... this is really not reasonable design. After about 5 shots, the new surgemax's safe is lighter and can be shifted by hand but still very very tight...and my second hand one is just as smooth as a normal safe
Wondering will the new one be more powerful? donnot have good materials to test power for now, so just guest for the louder sound and harder to cock. ------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: FPM
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2023 at 11:55pm
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Get one of these and use a ballistics calculator: https://outdoorshop.nz/products/prochrono-chronograph-dlx" rel="nofollow - https://outdoorshop.nz/products/prochrono-chronograph-dlx to work out force. |
Posted By: Billbobnz
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2023 at 6:07pm
| You can also fill your sand bag with rice as an option. Or a mixture or sand and rice |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2023 at 12:44pm
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Hope everyone is safe from Gabriell...
Finally got some sunny days. Sadly time to move to somewhere else... ------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2023 at 2:15pm
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Have given my Stalker Jr. to my friend as a gift. 3 5-shot groups of my Surgemax in 12 meters Standing 1st with flatnose guncity 2nd with roundnose winchester 3rd with flatnose guncity   After two groups, finally feel to manage it  ------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: Billbobnz
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2023 at 6:45pm
| Good on you narrowing them down. As you shoot more and the gun breaks in those groups will tighten even more. |
Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2023 at 11:25pm
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Got a new .22 air rifle Benjamin Ironhead Nitro piston Elite, 1000fps of .22 as adv ------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |