Flub's General Discussion - what is the problem with brass brushes

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what is the problem with brass brushes

Printed From: Kiwi Airgunners
Category: General
Forum Name: Flub's General Discussion
Forum Description: General discussion goes in here.
URL: www.kiwiairgunners.co.nz/forum_posts.asp?TID=645
Printed Date: 17 May 2024 at 4:20pm
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Topic: what is the problem with brass brushes

Posted By: kruzaroad
Subject: what is the problem with brass brushes
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2022 at 4:07pm

a question, why do people get so anti brass barrel brush.? my logic would be that the barrel is harder than the brush and shouldn't do any damage. could someone enlighten me on this please.

Replies:

Posted By: mercs
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2022 at 5:13pm

Air Rifle barrels are treated but not particularly hard.

Where required i would only use cleaning Patches.

Napier of London have good on-line instructions and products are readily available.

Cleaning should be very rare and only if experiencing problems that cannot be otherwise explained.

I had trialed a tin of copper coated pellets through a 1000fps Crosman and was unhappy with result.

My cleaning rod and kit came with a brass brush which I used, it was a very tight fit.

Following this I was even less pleased with accuracy because there was none.

1000 pellets later this rifle never recovered to original excellent performance.

Copper pellets or brass brush, no idea which was to blame but I will not be using either again.

Look forward to some great posts on this one.

Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2022 at 8:50pm

I wrote to air arms and asked them if it was OK or if it held a chance of damaging the barrel. I'll post it when I get the answer. in the meantime I'd be keen to hear more views or experiences with the afore mentioned cleaning brush. ( real life experience trumps)

Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2022 at 8:20am

air arms reply:
Hello Carey

The technical depatrtment has advised not to use metal cleaning brushes in air rifle barrels.

This is for a couple of reasons:

1. Air rifle barrels are on the whole a softer material than ‘live round’ guns

2. The ferrule that holds the brush can scratch the inside of the barrel if care is not taken.

Plastic brushes or cloth/tissue pull-throughs are advised..

Posted By: J-S
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2022 at 10:03pm

As stated, air gun barrels are fairly soft by steel standards. I wouldn’t use anything metal in an airgun barrel, especially something like an air arms.
Once or twice will likely be fine, but repeated use could dull the rifling lands.
I’d suggest a bore snake without a brush, or a pull through with fabric patches.

Best tip is to clean the barrel when new then only again when accuracy drops off. Airgun barrels don’t need a lot of cleaning, pellet lead fills pores in the steel and cleaning removes this.

-------------
https://www.instagram.com/js_airguns/" rel="nofollow - J S Airguns
Air Arms TX200('s)
Theoben Sirocco
HW77
FWB 300s
Webley Patriot
One or two others...

Current projects:
Too many..

Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2022 at 7:52am

so is a bore snake with brass connector for the plastic patch holding piece be Ok. (I brought a bore snake as the rod I had was brass ends, and I didn't like the idea of forcing it through just incase )

Posted By: dvlnme
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2022 at 8:54am

airgun barrels will allways over time get a very thin build up of the soft lead used for pellets but unlike a firearm barrel this fouling dosnt include burnt powder fouling deposited in the barrel under very high temps that bakes the fouling into firearms barrels,lead and copper jacketed bullets allso leave fouling in firearms barrels this can be very hard to remove and normally requires bronze brushes and solvents to remove,airgun pellets are normally very soft lead some of which will strip from pellets when fired adhering to barrel,this will build up over time if not removed regularly,but its very easy to remove with just cloth patchs,airgun barrels are generaly softer steel than firearms barrels proberly because airguns dont operate at the significantly higher pressures of firearms,barrels are soft enuf that bronze brushs will damage the rifling over time and bronze brushs are just not needed to clean airgun barrels.there is plenty of excellent info on cleaning airgun barrels on most airgun forums that can explain this better than i can but there are very good reasons for not using bronze brushes to clean airgun barrels.

cheers mike

Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2022 at 9:21am

yeah so much contradiction on the air gun sites ya don't know what to believe. I think air arms recommends that 250+ rounds is about right for cleaning. shooters, range from every 500 to never. some say if ya wash and lube bullets it reduces the amount you need to clean. Some use metal brushes and claim no affect, others say different.
Thats why I asked here. When I was target shooting years ago I took the trophy putting 5 shots through the same hole dead centre, standing 10 meters and I cleaned that bsa after every shooting session. all good ill try a few different periods of running a pull through through it and see what works. I guess a lot would have to do with the softness of the lead, how tight it's engaging the rifling and the state of the barrel. I'll say away from metal brushes mind. cheers for advise ppls

Posted By: J-S
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2022 at 9:29am

As DVLNME said really, patches are the safest.

Its more the over time point with wear - repeated use forcing a brush through.

with the bore snake and the brass / bronze weight, its not beimng forced in to the barrel and is simply sliding through with no resistance so there would be little chance of it doing damage.

-------------
https://www.instagram.com/js_airguns/" rel="nofollow - J S Airguns
Air Arms TX200('s)
Theoben Sirocco
HW77
FWB 300s
Webley Patriot
One or two others...

Current projects:
Too many..

Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2022 at 12:59pm

thanks. that makes sense and answers it perfectly.

Posted By: dvlnme
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2022 at 8:51am

bronze brushes will eventually damage firearms barrels to if not used correctly,i would never put anything but soft fabric patchs thru not only my much loved 20year old air arms pcp rifle but none my others as well.as you said air arms recommends cleaning approx every 250 shots,i have never found that necessary,i dont clean barrels now unless i notice accurracy dropping off and evan then i dont remove all the lead fouling from barrels because you then need to put quite a few shots thru to lap barrel out again to have accurracy return,i never put a bronze brush thru my 22lr rimfire rifles either for exactly the same reason,you can over clean barrels too,high velocity center fire rifles copper foul their barrels and if not removed this will destroy their accurracy too,i have purchased qiute a few high powered center fire rifles their owners believed the barrels were shot out because they hadnt cleaned the copper fouling out fully,that all shot brillently when cleaned properly,i have fired many thousands of high velocity lead bullets out of firearms with excellent accurracy once i had removed all the copper fouling from barrels,i would never use the copper plated pellets now around thru any of my pcp rifles or pistols because the copper will build up and foul the barrel and its a real hassel to remove from soft airgun barrels without possibly damaging the barrel,and lead pellets will never be accurrate out of a copper fouled barrel,and the same applys to lead free pellets and those with synthetic sabos in airguns,so hopes this helps its not that complicated once you understand why these things happen.

cheers mike

Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2022 at 12:52pm

sweet explanation. simple, reasoning, real life cause and effect. the best I've seen on any site. For those reasons I'm taking it on board. Cheers Mike