PCP Pistols
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Topic: PCP Pistols
Posted By: Player01
Subject: PCP Pistols
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2018 at 9:49pm
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Hi all, Just signed up so I can start asking some questions and learn more. I was looking on TradeMe the other day and was watching a PCP pistol that was advertised on another NZ forum. It was the FX Ranchero in .22 which I didn't bid on as when auction was listed it stated that you need a FAL which is what I thought too, but after auction had closed I read people in the comments were saying you don't need a FAL due to the length as it is not over 762mm long. Gave Youngs Airgun Centre a call today and learnt that due to the recent law change 18 months ago if PCP pistols are imported into the country after that law change which requires a FAL to import they then require a FAL to be sold, but any pistols that were purchased before that can be sold without a FAL needed. Make sense? So I thought this would be a good place to start to possibly find one that somebody is selling
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Replies:
Posted By: Pauly5
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2018 at 12:02am
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Hi there, Yes they are becoming rare pcp pistols. Yes that makes sense to me. I hope you find one. Paul. ------------- |
Posted By: xyon
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2018 at 10:56am
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I'm not a lawer, so I may be completely wrong. As far as a know, it is not against the law to own or sell a pcp pistol without a FAL. But the police have found a somewhat underhand way of limiting access to air pistols by making it difficult to get an import permit. I suspect that they made it a condition of Ron's import permit that he only sell to individuals with a FAL. I don't think the police can control who the original buyer then sells the pistol to. ------------- --- My favourites springer - Diana 52 PCP - FX Wildcat III |
Posted By: Player01
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2018 at 9:23pm
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Hi, Thanks for the responses. Does everybody here that owns the more powerful PCP pistols have a FAL or needed one to purchase? Besides Youngs Airgun Centre I don't think there is any other airgun shop that brings in the PCP hunting pistols. I purchased my first pistol which was a Zoraki HP-01 Ultra a couple of months ago, but have found my self caught by what i've read is called the "bug" haha so looking at getting something a bit above the current pistol that I own. He told me due to him having to bring them in with a FAL, they therefor require a FAL to sell on. So my only chance is secondhand which is why I thought this would be a good place to start.
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Posted By: Pauly5
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2018 at 9:39pm
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I own a marauder pistol with stock, aka P Rod, and do have my fal. I had a second one that I sold in pistol form to someone without a fal. You could look at the crosman 2240 type pistol. They are CO2, by they are accurate and based on the same platform as the P Rod. There's also something like an air chief cpm1 m. Again CO2, but has a magazine. Have you tried magair? ------------- |
Posted By: Player01
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2018 at 9:45pm
| Yes, I have looked at that option, not keen on CO2. I'm not bothered really about the magazine, single shot would be fine. I looked on there website, do they stock more in store than they advertise on their website? |
Posted By: Pauly5
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2018 at 10:23pm
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I would email Alex there. He can tell you if they have anything in stock. ------------- |
Posted By: nunga
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2018 at 11:28pm
They do stock more than whats on their site. It would be best to ring him, if he hasnt got what you want he can probably get it in no problem. ------------- 2nd place HP springer - WFTF World Championships 2014 |
Player01 wrote:Posted By: Mintie
Date Posted: 18 Jan 2018 at 5:12pm
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PCP pistols are pretty hard to come by in NZ, and yes some people will be reluctant to sell them to a buyer without a FAL due to pressure from the police. As other have suggested the Crosman 2240 CO2 pistol could be a good place to start and there are ways to turn them into a PCP via a hipac or regged bottle etc. Do you have the means (tank or pump) to fill a PCP? Are you not able to get a FAL or is the extra cost putting you off?
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Posted By: Player01
Date Posted: 18 Jan 2018 at 7:44pm
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Oh, I have no idea about converting/modifications possible to the 2240 CO2 pistol. I would just be using a pump not tank if I got a pistol. Had a big talk to the very helpful and friendly lady at Magair. Pretty much at this point second is my only option for a PCP pistol. That being said if I cannot find one around NZ on the forums or TradeMe I might have to settle for a high quality springer I'm thinking. AS for FAL, I could get it, but yes, costs add up, gun safe requirements are very strict and I cannot go bolting one down at this point, all for a PCP pistol. Not that desperate for one :) |
Posted By: Pauly5
Date Posted: 18 Jan 2018 at 8:04pm
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What do you want to shoot, use it for? There's a couple of nice single stroke pneumatic pistols on trade me at the moment. Weihrauch or Air Arms are the Springer to go for. ------------- |
Posted By: Player01
Date Posted: 18 Jan 2018 at 8:22pm
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Feathers, plinking around the property. Sounds silly, but I just want one because I know FX and Benjamin pistols are very good quality and just like all my other toys I own that I can if possible get the best quality for money possible over just junk without sounding like a twat. I have seen the ones on TradeMe, but wanting something more powerful that I can purchase, but its in a bit of a grey area second hand from what I've learnt talking to Magair. FX Ranchero or a Benjamin Marauder is what I'm after.
I got myself a Zoraki .22 Ultra a few months ago and have enjoyed that and feel like I need to upgrade now, but have found myself needing to learn about the reasoning behind the restrictions which I have now learnt so may have to settle for either a good springer or get a FAL. Just seems like a huge amount of work for one PCP pistol personally,. AA or Weihrauch rifles are what I'm leaning towards now until a pistol pops up if that happens. |
Posted By: Pauly5
Date Posted: 18 Jan 2018 at 8:49pm
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So thezoraki fills the ssp slot. I have a HW97k along with pcp rifles, and it is just as accurate and satisfying to shoot. So if you want accurate, fun, something for the odd rabbit,or pest I would recommend one. Otherwise just keep your eyes peeled for one I guess. If you decide you want a pcp rifle, I have a .22 cyclone for sale. With the right silencer and on low power it's so quiet you really only hear the pellet hit. ------------- |
Posted By: Player01
Date Posted: 18 Jan 2018 at 10:13pm
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Indeed, it fills the slot, but was just more intrigued by the whole pistols side of things even though it is not as practical as a rifle. Between those two air rifle manufactures does it just come down to personal preference?
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Posted By: Rusty
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2021 at 5:22pm
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I know this is an old thread, just wanted to post here to confirm the info on this site and other nz forums that a pcp pistol doesn't require a FAL to own one just to purchase new from Youngs because of the revised import laws. Where does a converted bolt action co2 pistol (crosman) sit legally if it's modified to run on 1000-1200psi compressed air for better shot consistency target shooting? Reading the arms act there is no mention to pcp pistol being a specially dangerous airgun just the pcp air rifle that by legal definition is over 762mm with a shoulder stock, any info would be appeicated since there's no local arms officer in my town to ask.. |
Posted By: Pauly5
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2021 at 7:04pm
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I don't know the exact definition on the law, but my understanding is that a pcp pistol doesn't need an FAL, but if you put a stock on it to make it a carbine, you will need an FAL. So if you were to convert a 2250 to HPA you will need an FAL, but if you convert a 2240 without the stock, you will be ok. A Marauder pistol is a good example. |
Posted By: Rusty
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2021 at 12:05pm
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Kinda what I thought, hpa conversion of a crosman pistol would be OK if there was no carbine stock attached making it a hpa rifle. Marauder pistol be sweet but not that common to find in nz and sold without a FAL, might buy some 1020 steel DOM tubing to remake the crosman main tube to get rid of the factory stamping on the stock 2240 tube that compromises the strength of it. Airgun parts don't need an import permit so I could buy the US made hpa tube and other parts needed. |
Posted By: Pauly5
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2021 at 12:48pm
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I have a Marauder pistol I am lookingto sell, just haven't got around to putting it up on trademe yet. |
Posted By: J-S
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2021 at 12:48pm
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I think the requirement for PCP pistol to need FAL is more about that being a condition of importation of the guns. Police have tried to do it with other air pistols too - Zoraki, Umarex etc. But they dont require FAL in legislation so the likes of Youngs denies the permit approval if that is a condition. So pistols imported with that condition need FAL, pre-that they do not (i believe). Youngs mentioned that if the item is imported with that condition, then subsequent ownership SHOULD have that condition also - so should be sold to a FAL owner. It would only ever be known if the gun was looked at by the police for any reason and found that it was imported with the FAL condition... Doesnt make sense to have some pistols that require FAL and some that dont. So 2240 converted to PCP should be fine as it isnt imported with any conditions. ------------- https://www.instagram.com/js_airguns/" rel="nofollow - J S Airguns Air Arms TX200('s) Theoben Sirocco HW77 FWB 300s Webley Patriot One or two others... Current projects: Too many.. |
Posted By: mercs
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2021 at 9:29pm
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Air Pistols are known to increase in number inexplicably inside the gun safe. Higher power PCP pistols do not come available and low power 6 ft/lb target pistols only occasionally and they will be in the $1500 to $2500 range. Crosman 2250 and 2240 options can be a lot of fun and should be less than $300 new. Conversion to HPA High Pressure Air at 850 PSI improves consistency with tank and hose approx $175. However 12 gramme CO2 at $2 will deliver a good session of >20 effective shots in .22 calibre. Modifications start from day 1 but either the pistol or carbine with an upgraded breech from Youngs will be under $400. All sorts of tweaks available on youtube. They are often referred to as the Rat Catcher and great fun at 15 - 20 yards.
2250B with LH breech and Weaver pistol scope operates on air or CO2 $875  |
Posted By: Rusty
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 2:33pm
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Thats a sweet pistol mercs, whats it like shooting with a scope? Ive just shot air pistols with iron sights. I have a 2250b co2 rifle and a parts rifle, two steel breaches and three 15" .22 cal barrels, looking at nickel plating the parts to build a custom rifle since the cheap blueing is now getting rusty.. much prefer stainless parts since ive got the skills to tig weld and machine parts so a stainless steel co2 airgun will be on the to do list this year. Found an intresting herald article online where Ron from youngs said its unlikely the semi auto .22 pcp rifle had the fpe to do what the cops said, police and one greedy MP (shes been kicked out of national hahaha) publicly stated that pcp rifles have the "same power as a firearm" when retailers aggreed to not stock the big bore rifles and only up to .25cal rifles are avalible to purchase now.... |
Posted By: Rusty
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 2:47pm
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Heres the article https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/odds-against-air-rifle-firing-fatal-shot-expert/76QMPYE47Q2DPOINHJ5N5YDS2Q/ The very next month https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/high-powered-air-rifles-now-require-licence And something i find quite interesting that police could be 300x more likely to loose a firearm than a licensed firearm owners, maybe they could address that public safety issue... https://sportingshooters.nz/ssanz-blog/a-significant-distortion-of-the-truth/ |
Posted By: mercs
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 5:54pm
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Thanks for the links Rusty very interesting. I like my springers but would have been very tempted to have a PCP with a magazine for pest control. The British professional exterminators do some great work very safely and humanely from what I have viewed. The pistols are a challenge to me whatever I attach to them. At 10 yards I do as well with the fixed sights but not too good beyond that. I keep a look out for a dovetail reflex option and dovetail rear mounted peep sight to try. Shooting from a rest with a riflescope fitted opens the range out if you can manage the holdover, actually once a rifle scope is fitted my stance adapts and I find my arms are braced in close to get the eye relief and can be quite stable. Red dots are an improvement when it comes to sighting quickly but no more accurate however i do prefer them for ease of use, seen here on my Air Chief CP1-M. Dovetail options are hard to come by, but Nikko Stirling have one available in NZ at $100.  The Weaver pistol scope at $425 improves accuracy at distance but it takes practice to sight quickly at arms length, seem to be readily available on Trademe. Seen here on a 2250b fitted with a 10 inch barrel. Great results using SigAir Venom pellets on both air or CO2. Still considering a metal breech upgrade, Quick detachable mounts allow this scope to move easily between all my pistols which a great feature.  2250B with Gamo 4x32AO $140, rifle scopes can look out of place but give the most immediate improvement if shooting targets or clearing out some small pests.  |
Posted By: dvlnme
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2022 at 8:34am
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police are just playing silly buggers over import licences but thats what happens when government bassically gave police the powers to decide whats importable or not or to interperate the law to suit themselves as has been done under labours bs new laws,pcp pistols are exempt from licence requirements.but they will only allow Ron to import pcp pistols under the same rules as rifles so in order to get import permit for pcp pistols he has no choice but sell to licence holder because they are on his licence,as for the commet bout some believing pcp airguns are as powerful as firearms many police now believe that because thats what they are taught in police training now many cops allso beieve that all pcp rifles are semi autos,just absolute rubbish of course but the worlds full misinformation these days hence all the weird things people believe today bout covid,politics religion etcguns just one more to add to the growing list of misimformation out there people believe today,Puals right bout 2240/2250 co2 guns they are a good platform for tinkers to do all sorts things with though i am not a fan of the hipac system simpliy because it screws into the thin co2 tube and unless valve fixings are up graded for higher pressure correctly they are potentually very dangerous additions to a gun built for lower pressure co2 but if done properly they seem to work ok for an unregulated gun,seen few guns blown up with hipacs over the years,easy enuf to either buy or make a proper hpa cylander for 2440s and fitted with the right breech build pretty damn good pcp 2240 pistol.because the local supply of pcp pistols is limited to whats essentually in country certain people are pushing prices up simplily because they can to rediculous levels. cheers mike
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Posted By: Rusty
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2022 at 6:20pm
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"Police are playing silly buggers" over the import licenses.. not just those but mail order forms too, just recently got denied for a qb79 co2 rifle off trademe since the seller had a FAL it doesnt mean that a co2 rifle is a pcp rifle (shhhh we know theres not much difference.. apart from they will fail dangerously at pcp pressures) 2mths wait and no police email to seller or me so after two email's I get "unfortunely we won't be processing this aplication" I had thought of applying for a FAL but with the year wait to process and then being vilified by the police and general gullable anti gun public, why bother... just what the police wanted less gun owners in nz. Maybe we need to reclassify police patrol cars as "specialy dangerous" and restrict access to fit & proper oficers who ain't on a power tripping adrenilin rush... since I've lost count of the lives of young people that have been lost to them over the last decade in high speed police pursuits, alot more than pcp rifles ever will. A rifles just a tool its the idiot that misuses it to cause public harm thats the problem same with a knife or even a vehicle. Rant over lol looking at a Weihraunch HW80 .22 springer with my trademe auction refund if i can find a nice older mk1 in nz, ill drive as far as aucks to get one if I have too. Might ask Ron at Youngs if he knows of any around. Making a titanium piston on my toolmaker's lathe is an option since I've already ordered the custom aussie made piston seal and a Titan XS no.2 spring from the UK for the build cause I'll have to wait till USPS is shipping to nz again to get a Vortek spring. |
Posted By: dvlnme
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2022 at 12:06pm
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thats very definatly some one playing silly buggers as these rifles have never been lic required,the fact seller holds a lic dosnt apply,other wise following that logic by police would mean every lic holder who sells any airgun not a pcp rifle would only be able to sell to another lic holder which is total BS of course and taking it further would mean any lic dealer would only be able to sell any airgun not lic required to a lic holder,who knows maybe thats their eventual plan,i dont know the ins and out of that sale but could just be seller covering their but by specifying selling online only to lic holders too,police dont like QB co2 rifles anyway because too many were converted to hpa and then became pcp rifles under the law and many once modded to hpa were proberly owned by some without a lic,police are pareniod bout pcp rifles as others did mention.getting back to topic,Pual ans Mercs right there nothing wrong with a well modded and setup 22 cal co2 2240/2250 pistol they got enuf power for rabbits possums etc,the only down side is the cost of continually buying 12 gr co2 cartridges,which can get expensive if you want shoot a lot but plus side is you will have good pistol you can hunt with,the way things have become here now we sometimes just have to make the best of what we can get,or or find a pcp pistol you can by locally,or find someone prepared to convert a 2240 to hpa for you,and good luck with the last option as not many us building pcp airguns in nz these days.third option is to buy in a hipac unit and modd the 2240 properly to use it know quite few who have hipacs on properly modded 2240 pistols all work fine and no one i know has had any issuses with the hipacs. cheers mike
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Posted By: Rusty
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2022 at 2:28pm
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Yea mike playing silly buggers or just call it what it is.. bulls**t i can walk into hunting and fishing and buy any airgun but I can't now use the internet and courier services to purchase a collectabe and hard to find co2 rifle, air guns have hardly been a problem in nz and more a tool to develope firearms safety to new shooters aswell. Ive found a nz source of 1010 grade seamless dom steel tube to remake the main tube of a 2240 to handle up to 1500psi, looking at 28.6mm od 2mm wall with 24.6mm id so i can use 3/4"14 bspf threads that use a 24.6mm drill hole on the pressure tube. Stock tube is 22mm id so i can gain some resovior volume and machine the hammer valve from 25mm dia 416 stainless barstock like a quackenbush air rifle, will just mill the steel breach i have to fit the larger diameter main tube. Will make a sacraficed main tube and test it on a 5000psi hydro test rig and see how/why it fails for added safety. Im an engineer by trade so not the average diy airgunner playing with a hipac conversion, why not many guys building pcp airguns in nz anymore mike? Odd that i emailed youngs airguns and they couldnt source a .25cal barrel blank maybe they are restricted imports too.. airgun shop in whangarei were like "we dont sell barrels" guessing just expensive pcp rifles. |
Posted By: dvlnme
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2022 at 12:40pm
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i am an old school general engineer with 40 years of experence as machist as well,good to see another engineer getting into considering building co2 and pcp airguns,i gave up using steel tubing some years ago and build all my pressure vessels using suitable alliminium tubing now for my gun builds,have used certain types hydrollic tubing because its readily available and suitab;le for up to 10,000psi in some grades,one inch or metric 24 mm alli tubing with 2.5/3 mm wall thicknes will safely handle up 10,000psi evan lower grades like 2024t2 are suitable,have seen lab tests using 2024t2 tested to 10,000 and have rested myself to 4500psi,i read some where years ago that crosman used test 2240 cylanders to 3400psi,dont know if thats still current today but would think proberly is.as to Ron not selling barrels have purchased many 2260 barrels from Ron and he did manage to get me a green moutian barrel works 25cal barrel they make exclusivly for crosman custom shop couple years ago that crosman dosnt sell normally have been sitting on this barrel ever since looking for a project for it,and just found that project,as i have munted hatsan AT44 pcp rifle in 177 cal coming shortly that some one has very crudely modified into a single shot for some reason by opening up breech loading port and removing all the mechanical componants for the mag etc i intend to use the 25cal barrel and rebuild hpa system to suit 25cal and rework breech to use crosman maurder rotory mags and hopefully end up with a 60 plus fpe 25 cal rifle,as to why virtually no ones still building pcps havnt a clue on that one,but guess pcps not everyones cup tea and there is the firearms lic thing for pcp rifles,allso anyone building any airguns for sale now needs a dealers lic,i dont build guns for anyone else these days am retired so got plenty my stuuff to do,and no longer hold a dealers lic either as there is no monet to be made building any type guns its not worth the cost of mantaining a dealers lic any more or the hassels that come with holding this lic either.the way the law is in nz these days its just not worth getting involved in building or evan working on airguns or firearms for anyone else without the dealers lic. cheers mike
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Posted By: Rusty
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2022 at 9:29pm
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Aluminum hydraulic tubing seems interesting for an air tank Mike, is that theaded end caps or pinned? Think I'll test out steel DOM tubing first and was thinking of a disposable screw on 88gram co2 tank for a pistol build, guy on another forum tested one to 19,000 psi before failure and there are 95gram ones on ebay. Didn't know ya needed a FAL dealers license to sell airguns, wouldn't be much money in building them anyway just be cool to have a nz designed pcp rifle built here that looks more like a classic firearm than a transformer child lol kinda not joking some new pcp rifles trying to look tech advanced just look ugly. Quackenbush rifles look more tradional styled but good luck getting one of those. I didn't think of ordering a 2260 barrel off Ron, just asked if he can import a barrel blank for me. Want to go .25 cal with my airgun builds if I'm going to the trouble of custom made parts. |
Posted By: dvlnme
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2022 at 9:02am
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i use 25mm 6060t5 allinium tubing for many pcp builds and larger 32mm tubing as well both have 3.25 mm wall thickness evan one inc 2024t2 tubing with 2.5 mm wall thickness perfectly fine for over 4000psi have seen lab tests done using 2024 up to 10,000 psi using this same aircraft tubing i dont bother threading end caps etc 4x 6mm cap screws work just fine. regarding dealers lic to sell airguns,that applys if selling/working/building airguns on regular bassis if nz police consider its a money making enterprise or busseness,the interpritation is entirely up to nz police.the licence requirement to import and sell is on the condition they will issue the import licence to a dealer only if dealer agrees to sell only to lic holders,as police can put whatever conditions they like on import permits now under new gun laws as government has given police complete autonomy on how they apply and administer the gun laws there isnt anything we can do about how police apply the law or how they interperate it,essentually nz police can now do whatever they like on import permits and put any conditions they like on issusing permits,there is no restritions on calibers if building guns yourself build 50 cals if you want,good 308 cal firearms barrel make excellent high powered pcp guns,essentually if you going to build pcp airguns for yourself you can do whatever you want as long as not full auto,but if building pcp rifles or converting co2 to hpa with rifles i strongly recommend having a firearms lic. hope that helps,cheers mike
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Posted By: Rusty
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2022 at 6:41pm
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Any reason for choosing 6060 over 6061? Lots of skill to thread a pressure vessel tube correctly the grade 8 6mm cap head bolts seem a good option. Would only run a rifle on co2 without a fal, I'd like to see what a qb78/2250 hybrid could produce with a better designed hammer valve and 80% bore transfer porting with a .25cal barrel, done a lot of research on qb rifles and will transfer that to a hpa target pistol build. Do you think increasing the main tube diameter to 1 1/8" or 1 1/4" for more volume and better flow into the hammer valve to be an improvement Mike? Stock crossman and qb main tube is 7/8" diameter, I know the weights of the hammers so would just modify their dimensions to keep the weight correct or even lighter if needed. Might start a build thread to put this info in for others that are interested. |
Posted By: Pauly5
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2022 at 7:14pm
| A build thread would be much enjoyed. It's been so long since anyone did one on a forum. |
Posted By: dvlnme
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2022 at 7:36am
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i just used 25mm tubing because its close to the origional 2240 tube diameter on guns have built,but it does restrict hpa capacity to approx 50/55 cc evan with 12 inch barrel lengths i normally use for pistols,without regs fitted,depending on power out puts wanted,i can get 12/13 shots from 50 cc in 24fpe range in 22 cal and 4/6 shots in 30/32 fpe range from only 2800psi fill pressures in unreged guns sweet spot with approx 1 fpe over these shot strings.its possible to get significantly higher shot counts from this capacity evan unreged in 12/13 fpe range,depends on what you want and how guns are set up for,i build mostly hunting guns in pistols so want decent power levels,am currebtly building 2x 177 cal target pistols one for bulk co2 the other for hpa,dont plan on reging the pcp at this stage as want to find out how consistant can get velocitys first before decide bout reging it,both pistols will be setup in the 6/8 fpe range,the other reason i use the smaller diameter tubing for pistols is to keep weight and bulk down and because i like the look of the smaller tubing better with pistols,i do have a partly built 30 cal pistol here i used larger 32mm tubing for simply becauase 30 cal uses lot more air,as for the grade alli tubing i use,any those grades with at lest 2,5mm wall thicknes will hold well over 4000 psi saffely proven by lab tests in USA and my tests by myself and others as well,as you said threading for pressure vessels a tricky and very precise job particually using alli but not neccessary up to over 3500 psi,but the machine screw method just dont look as nice i will admit but lot easier to do,hydrolic steel tubing can hold up to 10000psi as many machines today run at this pressure in hydo systems,have seen hpa cylanders on utube made from motor bike front fork cylanders as well,small diameter steel and alli tubing is lot stronger than many think,read somewhere that crosman tests their co2 guns tubing to 3500psi,dont take that as gospel but its proberly correct,think about it the hipacs are just screwed into 2240 co2 tubing and run at 3000psi which means the tubing in front of the hipac is holding 3000psi quite happily.dosnt pay to take these pressures lightly of course they could kill or blow of body bits if got wrong very easily too.Pual you know why i dont post anything bout projects but i am allso bit reluctent to doso the way things are in NZ these days. cheers mike
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Posted By: Pauly5
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2022 at 7:47am
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Interesting stuff, I wish I knew more about it all. Yea, all good Mike, I've been fortunate to have seen your work, so I can survive off that. I actually like the set screw look. I've always respected materials used and not hidden when they serve a purpose. And you get to understand the designer. Wingman had a good couple of builds on the other forum that were very enjoyable, but it does take time and effort to not only build, but photograph and present them. |
Posted By: Rusty
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2022 at 1:52pm
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Thanks for the info on your builds, I get what you mean being reluctant to post builds on the forum now.. what happend to the NZ we useto enjoy and there's a big difference between an engineer building an airgun and someone thinking they can copy a build thread, liability too 3000psi can be lethal to someone that doesn't understand strength of material eng calcs. My builds will take a while, still have a zx45 milling machine in pieces getting improvement mods, will start making a few parts on the lathe but the breech block and hammer valve will need mill work done. Target/hunting pistol design will be the focus hence using hpa over ço2, wouldn't even shoot a bird with my stock 2250 not a humane thing to do if you value a clean kill when dispatching pest. My stoger x20 aint even that effective at shooting pests and its anoying we don't still have the use of .25 and .30 cal pcp rifles for pest control without the hassle of police and their fal control. |
Posted By: dvlnme
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2022 at 2:41pm
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i never rush any my builds,they will take as long as it takes,i spent 6 years on and off working on developing my pcp revolver to the stage it is currently,but its a one of proto type pcp airgun so i will definatly be doing more work on it,nothing major just few little niggly things i want done better,thats the advanage of designing and building your own pcp airguns,they are never completed tho until you are completly satisfyed they are,and evan then later on you may decide to change something,i build pcp airguns ans occassionally firearms becauase i enjoy doing so and simplily because i can,its my hobby and has been for over 40 years,i will proberly die standing at my lathe or mill working on some gun project. there huge difference between putting gun together with parts you purchased,and designing and hand building a gun from scratch,just as there is huge difference for most in trying to copy a build thread without all the needed information and building the same gun from proper drawings,building guns of any type isnt rocket science but you still need to know and understand what you are building,if you dont the results can be disasterous,facts are a hand built gun can only be as good as its builders skill and knowledge levels like most engineers i am a fussy bugger,things either done exactly right or its binned,there is no second best when playing around at these pressures,second best could kill you. i tend to keep my builds running at 3000psi max,never found the need to use higher pressures as i get the power out puts shot counts i need for hunting pistols and rifles in the 2800/3000 psi range with or without regulaters in cals up to 25, i design and make my own hi flow valves for both co2 and hpa,i use a simple one piece valve body i designed,with a cone shaped synthetic poppit exposed to air chamber,with the valve spring behind poppit inside valve body the valve has two stem bushings machined directly into valve body,valve is assembled from front with the synthetic poppit threaded onto the valve stem,these are very simple and easy to make and can be made to suit any tube diameter or caliber,because valve body is parrallel sided they are then easy to modify if needed in lathe enuf for this post cheers mike
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Posted By: J-S
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2022 at 11:06am
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I agree Paul - on a custom piece its nice to see how its assembled - screws and all. Shows the thought process and if they are nicely fitting it adds to the quality and craftsmanship! There are some clever folk around doing some very interesting things. It is a pity it cant be more widely shown but perfectly understandable that makers want to keep private. ------------- https://www.instagram.com/js_airguns/" rel="nofollow - J S Airguns Air Arms TX200('s) Theoben Sirocco HW77 FWB 300s Webley Patriot One or two others... Current projects: Too many.. |
Posted By: dvlnme
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2022 at 9:25am
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while not illegal to buy sell/repair/modify/build firearms and airguns as a hobby as long as its not part of a busseness,what defines a busseness is a little vague and open to interpretation by an individual police officer and it can be very easy to fall foul of this bit of law if you dont hold a dealers licence,and when factoring in that many in police now believe pcp airguns are more powerful than firearms,and nz police are parinoid bout pistols because they are concealable and pcp pistols dont require a firearms licence as pcp rifles do,we have a situation thats makes it not a good idea to post pics and details bout building pcp pistols particually on public forums which can leave those doing so open to police investigation,which may not end well if they decide that person evan as a hobby is in the busseness of making and selling pcp airguns without the approprate licence to do so,that is why I am reluctent tp post pics and details of any of my airgun projects on the forum,much as I would at times like to share what i do,just dont think for me personally that its a good thing to do,i never do anything illegal but just dont want to accused of doing so the way things are today as it could potentually cost me my firearms licence and guns for something I havnt done, cheers mike
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Posted By: Rusty
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2022 at 10:56pm
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Perfectly valid reasons Mike, think most people with a FAL are trying to do nothing that would put their license at risk. Funny that pcp airguns are limited to subsonic speeds so it takes an expensive rifle and high pressures to match equivalent firearms fpe, .25cal pcp can match a .22lr but at a much higher cost. No pcp build threads on here might be a good idea, there are other forums to look at for that info.. Mike do you cast your own ammo for your builds, I noticed most websites and all nz sites are sold out of .30cal jsb pellets, could only buy .25cal jsb pellets.. here's some useful pics since you have the skills also to figure out the rest. USA made Noe pellet molds are good but usps aint shipping to nz anymore so we kiwis have to be resourceful. uploads/627/250_BBT_16in_twist.jpg" rel="nofollow - 250_BBT_16in_twist.jpg uploads/627/Cherry_51gr_bbt_.250_cal.jpg" rel="nofollow - Cherry_51gr_bbt_.250_cal.jpg uploads/627/308_cal_BBT_152_gr_zps0blk15f4.jpg" rel="nofollow - 308_cal_BBT_152_gr_zps0blk15f4.jpg |
Posted By: dvlnme
Date Posted: 16 Feb 2022 at 8:36am
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used to cast and swage lot lead projectiles as was a commercial bullet maker for many years allso made jacketed rifle and pistol bullets,used to produce bout 3000 bullets per hour for cast and swaged lead bullets ans bout 1000hour in jacketed depending on type bullets was making could be as few as 1/200 jacketed an hour for jacketed partition type rifle bullets,but havnt made ant projectiles foe some years now but still have some dies for certain swaged and jacketed rifle and pistol bullets for a hand press that i cant find,all my hi speed machinery sold some years ago,and still in nz somewhere but have no idea where now.tiz pity bout posting pcp stuff but i just dont think good idea these days,too easy to get into trouble without a dealers licence these days evan if not breaking the law as the out come can depend on the attitude of the officer you dealing with at the time and their often very bassic understanding of the gun laws,you just cant win with some of them because in their eyes they are the police and therefore allways right,and unfortunately they do have the power to make life very difficult if they choose to,just not worth it mate on open public forum, cheers mike
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Posted By: Rusty
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2022 at 7:49pm
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Well thats way more than a few bullets, think their will be more reloading now with this ammo shortage. I've just got some new roofing lead flashing offcuts and 50/50 lead solder bar to learn to cast by hand, will be making my own molds and just have to run a pellet through my .25 cal barrel to find out the groove and land diameter to size the cutting tool +0.001 over groove diameter. 40 bucks for 150 .30cal pellets id cast my own if NOE makes a run of their hunter pellet molds again its modeled off the jsb pellet. |
Posted By: Rusty
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2022 at 8:01pm
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uploads/627/images.jpeg-767.jpg" rel="nofollow - images.jpeg-767.jpg It's another interesting part of the hobby making ya own ammo like building up a custom airgun, the bob's boattail bullets for airguns are the next developement from most swaged slugs you can buy, rather keen to make a mold for the 52gr bbt .25cal drawing I posted should stablize in my barrel with the 1:18 twist to 900fps. |
Posted By: dvlnme
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 8:31am
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airgun projectiles are normally made from pure lead,tin makes the alloy bit harder but in the right quantitys easier to cast in moulds,adding tin to alloys for swaging requires a lot more pressure to swage the bullet,big difference between bullets for firearms than bullets for airguns,bullets for firearms need to be lubed to prevent them leading up the barrel badly,and noramlly harder to better resist the significantly higher pressures and stresses put on bullets in firearms,purpose of lubing bullets for firearms is to help reduce the bullets leading up barrel,airgun bullets dont need lubing which is normally caused by the heat from gunpowder partually melting the base of the bullet,and leaving that residue in barrel,this can be reduced by copper gas checks on the base of harder lead bullets in firearms,it is possible to fire hard lead bullets in firearms up to 3000fps if bullets are wrapped with teflon tape with good accuracy,but normally lead bullets in firearms are best kept to no more than 2500fps max,unlubed soft lead as used in airguns wont significantly leave lead residue in barrel,but residue will build up slowly over time in airguns and needs to be removed to maintain accuracy,unlubed soft lead bullets can work extremely well in high powered pcp airguns at velocitys in the 1000/1500fps range,its possible to drive airgun bullets up to higher velocitys with good accuracy as well but generally to gain more energy in airguns bullet weights and calibers are increased and veloctys kept below 1200 fps,good source og info on shooting soft lead bullets in pcp airuns can be found on utube on US varmunt shooting posts and forums,these guys know what they are doing and talking about and are normally using calibers in the 25/30/35 range with decent weight projectiles at quite high velocitys in US made rifles some using nitrogen rather than hpa as nitrogen produces higher velocitys due to being thinner than air higher volumes can pass thru valve and is more free flowing than hpa,i believe swaging soft pure lead bullets produces the best bullets for airguns,as casting soft pure lead is more difficult to get good clean consistant weight bullets than swagind can,i can get swaged soft lead bullets to stay within 1/10 of a grain in weight,its not possible to cast pure lead bullets to that same consistancy.interesting topic. cheers mike
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Posted By: Rusty
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 5:46pm
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Will be useing 1% tin from the 50/50 solder in the pure lead to help it flow better into the mold, spent abit of time on the castboolit forum and resisting the urge to hoard lead wheel weights from the local tire shops lol Got my scrap roofing lead offcuts from a metal recycler website since the local scrappy closed years ago, bout 80 bucks for 10kg couriered.. not that bad if .30cal pellets are 40 bucks a tin. Roofing lead and lead head nails are the only source of pure lead around for airgun ammo. |
Posted By: dvlnme
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2022 at 1:38pm
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the only prob with lead head nails is the alloy not very consistant,and they allso often contain a % of antiminy,this metal is what makes lead harder and allso allows lead to be heat treated harder again,i personally wouldnt use lead head nails to produce airgun pellets or bullets unless alloyed in very small quantiys with pure lead because antinimy will lead the barrel with unlubed airgun ammo,as airgun barrels are normally softer than firearms barrels they are easier to damage getting the lead out of the bore,you can use a bronze brush in firearms but doso to an airgun barrel will likely destroy the barrel. the cast boolite forum is primerilly bout firearms but there are a few airgun cast bullet shooters on this forum,some of whom do know what they are talking about,but like many US forums there are plenty of self proclaimed arm chair experts as well,the world seems to be full of these so called experts today on most things,you dont need tin to cast top quality lead bullets,getting the mould temp just right is bit of an art many never quite master,but is the secret to casting excellent pure lead bullets,if mould is too cold you get undersized wrinkly bullets if too hot the bullets get a frosted colour and will allso be undersized and crystalize the exteriour of the bullet not saying i am an expert but have cast and shoot proberly several hundred thousand cast bullets in hand moulds over the past allmost 50 years and proberly several million in hi speed casting machines as a commercial bullet maker for 12 years i had to produce top quality bullets just to sell them and never had any complaints or returned bullets,as said casting top qiality lead bullets is bit of an art,but with pratice and patience anyone can learn how cast excellent lead bullets,you will learn to know exactly when mould temp is right because bullets will be bright and shiny with no wrinkles and once mould gets too hot the bullets become frosted,and time to let mould cool off,allinium/brass moulds heat up faster than cast iron moulds so you tend to get less good bullets before alli /brass moulds get too hot,there nothing wrong with alli moulds if you only want to cast smaller numbers of bullets in a session and they cost less to,my sujjestion if buying alli moulds get a 4 cavity mould rather than a single cavity mould. cheers mike
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Posted By: CuteRabbit
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 3:21pm
 Many years ago, I heard people playing PCP loss 3 fingers for the failure of the container. You don't want a pre-charged bottle in your short pocket, and you fall onto the ground, the pistol just explode between your legs... lets play with the rifle------------- Squirrel goes Vege @Crosman Benjamin Ironhide .22 Nitro Piston Elite @Umarex Surgemax .177 Gas Ram 1000fps |
Posted By: picante
Date Posted: 18 Jan 2023 at 2:50pm
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Not quite following suit but I've just put in a permit to import a pcp pistol. I am unsure how it will go as its already on order. I've
ordered an edgun leshiy, and a hatsan jet 2 that was pretty cheap as
another work gun as far as I can tell it's pretty straight forward. Will be interesting to see what happens. |
Posted By: Pauly5
Date Posted: 18 Jan 2023 at 3:18pm
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I certainly hope you get them. Yes ordering and getting them sent is easy, but getting them approved by NZ Police and customs will be the hard part, especially if they are shorter than 762 mm. Keep us informed.
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Posted By: picante
Date Posted: 18 Jan 2023 at 7:39pm
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Leshiy I think is 742 ,not so confident on the hatsan altho is going to be supressed. Fingers crossed |
Posted By: Pauly5
Date Posted: 18 Jan 2023 at 8:17pm
| I know of the first model in the country, and hear there is a mk2 possibly. |