So I'm air gunning  small game mostly, but, after a lifetime of shooting and now owning no rim, centrefire or shotguns for the first time since I was 11, it's back to air rifles

I spend my spare time in the bush kayaking and fishing, often remotely and sometimes for up to 3 or 4 weeks at a time.  I also only work part time and have Wednesday through Friday off each week.

During that time I fish a lot, with fly, ultra light and sea fishing from land and from either of my two kayaks, though mostly from a 5.2m sit on touring/fishing platform.

I do those longer trips kind of survival style, in that I take oats, lentils and rice plus herbs, spices and an emergency ration kit in case I get stranded  somewhere through injury or weather related events, which has happened once or twice.  The idea is that I have breakfast and carbs sorted, but I have to hustle for protein, soo that I've got a reason to get out and fish or hunt.  I used to do that with centrefire, shotty or rimfire but I gave up my firearms licence when the new laws regarding those came in to effect and now it's air rifles only.  I spend a fair bit of time in the McKenzie country, Central and Southland but also Marlborough and the Coast and there's plenty of small game in many of those places.

In terms of small game I've just bought a .22 Gamo Swarm Magnum which I'm enjoying.  I've had it 6 days and put roughly 200 rounds through it and it's starting to settle in. I've just been in touch with a member on here regarding trigger components and he has very kindly offered to send me them pro gratis, other than the postage fee, ( Thank you KiwiTR6) which is very much appreciated and given the rest of the rifle, with the after market optics I've added seems robust and capable and the grouping with the right pellets is starting to come together better, I'm now thinking of adding another calibre.

If you had to choose any two of the above calibres, what would they be and why, please?

More speed, less drop in the .177 but more punch in the .25?

I spend a lot of time in remote places and some of those places have abundant small game.  

I do up to 4 weeks at a time living out of a touring/fishing kayak or with a pack on my back and I've previously used rimfire, centrefire and shotguns to procure protein, as I normally do those longer trips survival style where I carry oats, lentils, rice and beans plus herbs and spices, but I need to forage and gather protein to eat well and go to bed without my guts grizzling.  I also have Wednesday through Friday off as a part time worker, though I carry a few luxuries food wise when I'm off on those weekly trips.

So, the question is, will the .22 do all that or is there an advantage in .177 or .25 over the .22?

If you could only own 2 calibres in air, which would they be and why? 

Fair points on windage and accuracy.  That's the same story for all the centre and rim fires I've owned, and there's been many of those. I'm getting more accurate and using Crown Magnums and Hornets. The grouping is getting better but I'll wait till I have 500 through it to determine which is the true preference.

I've also got some Hades coming, which feature well in many of the videos I've watched.

Small game is rabbits, hares, possums and some other pest species.  I have access to a couple of spots where Canada Geese are a problem and I think the Hornets may be the go there, though I'll be sneaking close and looking for head shots on those big buggers anyway.

For bigger game I'm going to a crossbow so goats are a no go for me with a pellet gun, irrespective of the power.  Just my preference,, and I know there are folk that have done that, but they've only got to move their head half an inch and that's a very slow and painful death.

It's also about making sure I don't have just the one option given how shaky things are in the world and, though I'm no prepper, I do want to be able to harvest food on an ongoing basis if it's needed so I'm also trying to build in fail safes.    

I've got 21 fishing rods and 18 reels plus enough tippet and fly tying material for about a decade.

I may just end up buying another of what I've already got so I have a spare of everything.   I'll find the pellets it likes and buy 5000 of them.  I'm 66 so that should feed me till I don't need food any more.     

Thanks for the tip on the cleaners.  Hadn't read that anywhere so that's a good tip.  I'll be using my .22 pull through with appropriate patches.

The Gamo has no spring.  Its a piston.  But I'll get spares of anything rubber.

And I already have 2 very powerful sling shots.   Handy.   Deadly at the right distance on the right sky rats.   Which, in good condition, make a very fine meal for one.

I take your point about better guns for the same money and they may be out there.  Very few of them with a 10 shot mag that I don't need an FAL for though.  And interoperability is a key, so, if I do get the same calibre, it will be the same rifle   In the same way, I have doubles of my best fish catchers in both rods and reels too.  Harvesting longevity being the key dynamic.  Spares of everything important.

Outside of the gun will get a light spray with CRC Marine Grade 6-66.  I've used that on all my guns/rifles/fishing gear/outdoor metal stuff,  tools and knives ever since it first came out as %-56 Marine grade.   Good viscosity without stickiness.

I think I'll stick with gas piston rifles.  The older springers I had, Milbro, BSA and Hatsan, all needed a bit of attention spring wise.   The piston system on the Swarm also seems to have less rebound, which I appreciate.

I hear what you say about the sport in small game hunting with an air rifle.  It has always made for more exciting stalking with the need for closer proximity.  Skills and senses need to be top class.

The Hades arrived earlier today.  They'll get tested tonight.   If they're good, I've got 500 of them.  If not, someone on here will get them cheap.    The Crows and the Hornets are good enough anyway, but the Hades?  I'll find out later.   I really only wanted to try them because I mistakenly thought they were domed, not dimpled and because they review well in many .22 Magnum videos.

I bought a spare mag.  Easy enough to single load, as you say, but just something else to misplace.  I like the inertia feed system though.  No issues so far and no misfeeds or dry fires.

Looking forward to the next three days off.  Rabbits!!

 

As an aside, a mate of mine heard I was getting back in too air rifles and has offered me a Swarm .25 Magnum with the same scope as I've got on the .22 with about 500 pellets through it (basically hes run it in for me) and it's a year old Gen 3 with the inertia fed Mag for $1000.

Finesse is the same for me in rifles as it is in cars.  I drive a Hilux.   It's an A to B event and the drive doesn't have to be flash or particularly comfortable .   The same with my rifles and guns over the years.   What I do know is I don't want a wooden stock.

I've got three days off and I'm taking them both with me to a campsite I know.  Betwixt fishing and firing, it'll be an interesting few days.

Great that you have a chance to fully test the .25 before making a decision - hopefully the weather gods will treat you well and you will be able to make the most of the time.

Check out the bottle-top challenge/test  basically a beer bottle top is about the size of a rabbit's brain so if you can consistently hit one at the ranges you want to be able to hunt, both you and the gun are good to go.

I agree with you about wooden stocks for hunting - just too easy to scratch/mark.   My Hassan has a beautiful Turkish Walnut stock and even though I don't use it much for hunting it already has a few marks.  At  just on 10 pounds it is too heavy to carry for too long, and at 30FPE it is a beast to cock and shoot.  I do enjoy using it and is very accurate when I get everything right.  It certainly hits hard!

I can see the benefit  of having 2 guns that are very similar to hold and shoot - has to be an advantage for achieving consistency with both guns.   My 4 rifles are all completely different to shoot - which I enjoy.  However what I want from my guns is not relevant to what you want. So enjoy your 3 days camping and keep us updated with your trip.

The weather forecast for my camp site at Lake Heron looks pretty sh*te today so I'll head down to a local river bed and put some shots through and head off camping overnight tomorrow.  There's bunnies in the river bed too.

There are rimfire spinner self resetting targets/pellet traps that are around bottle top size, and I may pick up one of those today in my search for appropriate pellets.

I'll get dialled in shooting technique wise and post what happens.   Some of the paper punchers on here will be smirking, I'm guessing, but, so far, everyone on here has been really supportive, positive and helpful, even if my choice of a Gamo over other far more premium brands might leave some scratching their heads.

Spinners are great once you have your gun(s) dialled in but nothing beats paper for getting your gun dialled in.  Even a large piece of cardboard with a simple cross in black marker pen works well.  The big advantage with paper - as long as it is big enough, is that you can see if you are high, low ,left or right of you point of aim and adjust accordingly.

Even when you have your guns zeroed at what ever range you prefer, paper is best for working out your hold-overs and hold unders at different ranges.

Can't recall who came up with the bottle top challenge - Pauly5 I think?  It's an easy way to test your accuracy is up to par 

if you can only have two air guns...

I'm a .177 shooter/hunter I only have two .177's but that's just because I got lucky but if I could only have two airguns I'd keep my prosport and buy a Diana 31 panther in .22 as I've had one of those and they're awesome, light, accurate (jsb14.3gr) a real outdoors bush basher food harvester with great T05 trigger, I see them at Youngs for $750 the same price as a Cometa Fusion which is a great springer also but it's not Diana level and then the Gamo's are 1k for budget airguns.

Brand is as important as Caliber.

You can buy a sh*t brand and it's a good one, but that's not common

Nowadays I look at survival, .177 and .22 pellets are everywhere. they used to be so much cheaper, I see some AA tins have doubled in price over 5 years and they will never be cheaper than now, so stock up while you can.

.25 I've never seen or tried so I dont know how common the pellets are but I bet they're not that common.

both .177 and .22 12-18ft/lb max with good shot placement will kill any small game in NZ and if the world turns to crap, both will head/neck a duck/goose rabbit/hare/possum out to 60m consistently with the right pellet and practice

I drive a hilux too, think practical if you want to survive

I've got JSB Hades, Apolo Air Boss domed and Gamo Pro magnum on the way for testing, the latter 2 from Broncos and the JSB from .

I'll post up some results from those pellets.

It'll be hard to beat the .22. for accuracy, but the real test for that will be Friday at 50m.

I do like the magazine system however, and most air rifles don't offer that. It's added complexity, but you can also slide the mag aside and single load pellets too, so if that system fails, there is a fail safe.

There's a few camp sites I go to where getting a feed with either the .22 or .25 will be a goer.  They're places where quiet is good. I've used subsonic .22 in the past and distances are close.

I hear what you say about brand, but I'm not sure I agree.  I've had rifles and guns from many different manufacturers, and the logo is never a guarantee.  Remington, Beretta and Winchester have all let me down on occasion, despite their respective reputations.  And, in the case of Remington, that was before almost all their rifles were utter sh*te.

Having said that, I may replace the .25 with a single shot of some kind.  I've had 9 concussions and losing a magazine is not out of the realm of possibility.  I'll pick up a spare later this week, just in case, and I already have a spare for the .22.  Not a deal breaker, considering the single load capability, but just something to be aware of.

concussions, you mean head injury and therefore loosing stuff ?

I just stick to straight forward single shots, dont matter if break barrel, side or under lever, as long as you got the pellet it likes and use good technique.

I've always been a .177 fan although years ago a mate went to aussie left me his diana 31 in .22 well that turned out to be an awesome food harvester.

thing is .177 and .22 are in desks , draws all  over the world, they like .22lr and 308 common as but .25, .30 like 6.5 or 204 not common, often hard to find.

I can go into most sport shops and buy a tin of something in a decent weight for .177 or .22 

Bump into someone and they probably got some pellets somewhere in those calibers, they're like diesel, they will never run out (all trains, trucks, ships, military vehicles all on diesel)

for accuracy at long range i stick to proven results, 10.34gr to 10.65 in .177 or 14.3 to 15.8gr in .22 most brands have something in that range.

Remington isnt a good brand in firearms, that's hype, better of with a Bergara

Thing with airguns is QC is often sh*t in airguns unless you paying top $, I've had big dollar springers  with inherent dramas but I have to say both these AA springers have been awesome.

I recently put a new spring in my prosport, never done that before, its twangy as but still awesome as. I might need to send that away, get a guide or something.

Good brands can often be bought at half price of a brand new one if you wait, watch.

I saw 3 tx200's on trademe a week ago, in 3 days they were all gone from $950 to $1500 little while back I seen Youngs had none, now the price is 2k, no mention of prosports anymore and I think they are more comfortable to shoot of me anyway but I will keep pushing forward with the tx.

End of the day .177 and .22 has killed everything in the small game world right back to the beginning when it was all iron sights. the animals havent changed, not any tougher but marketing creates perception.

They say beware the man who only has one gun, he probably knows how to use it...

 I know a few of them in the real world.

Any caliber will do the job if you do your part but you dont want to buy a 6.5 creed NO more in airguns when .177 and .22 are proven for decades upon decades

I'm just raving on lol

Yep, after 9 concussions, my memory is ............questionable, if I can remember the question.  No electrical activity at all in 20% of my right frontal lobe.   Thankfully my phone handles all the sh*t I need to remember, if I think to put it in there.  Technology is a wonderful thing, sometimes.

nothing wrong with tins of pellets that dont work the best for your gear as there will always be someone who needs to try a pellet and one of yours might be what they need to try for their own equipment.

I been struggling to hold good groups with my tx using quality pellets that my prosport loves so after days of trying everything I decided the scope might be fked, so I swapped them, put my hawke 8-32 on the tx, dialed it in and bingo, its an awesome shooter, holding tight groups as good as my prosport to the 40m that I've shot to so far today, I try the 60m and 80m range tomorrow if wind allows.

Anyway I thought well I'll shoot the Prosport with this 10 fixed optic just to be sure its the problem, not fractionally canted or something stupid and that scope just goes so well on the prosport i never would have guessed.

The prosport does have a longer pistol grip and wide flat forestock compared to the tx round shape, it also has a slightly higher check piece and it turned the Prosport into an entirely different animal, fast to get on target, light and it held zero.

I'm going to play with it more later or tomorrow.

I love airguns even when they drive me nuts.

Head injuries, dont let it get you down or define you, I've suffered them also from various serious accidents like the bends lol my memory is also crap and yep Id be fkd without my phone to remember everything or my kids or missus.

Aslong as your out there doing it, pulling the trigger or wanting to your living and enjoying life and that's what matters bro.

If I did ever go .25 it would be this the hueben gk1

https://www.hubenairguns.shop/collections/airguns

I used to have an Edgun Veles, very similar but was in .177 I should never have sold that, I'd sell a politicians kidneys to get it back

Thanks for that link.  I'll have a shufty. 

where do you hunt small game around chch.

I parked up in the redzone one arvo as I was passing through and oh my the canadian geese were within 50m of me, man do they taste great roasted

I'd be into them soon as it all turns to sh*te

Around Chch there's very few areas, but I spend a lot of time fishing, kayaking and tramping around Canterbury, the Alps and the McKenzie district, plus Central to,o, and, on occasion, Nelson Marlborough plus the Catlins at the other end and there's always a tasty little critter or two around one corner or the next.

Young pea fowl are good eating in spring too.

For me .22 absolutely has a use case, and I have a number of PCP's in .22 I use regularly, but .177 has never really tickled my fancy. I found with .177 the shot placement was super critical and I was getting too many shots that passed through rather than creating a decent wound channel, it just didn't seem to dump its energy as well as .22 and they are not designed to fragment like 17hmr or 204 etc.

For your survival type situations check out the Crosman 1322 like Kruza said, they are very versatile being able to collapse them down into a backpack easily and with a few small mods you can up the power quite a bit and get good consistent accuracy out of them. In terms of failure points they seem to just go on forever without issues, the only maintenance needed is a little oil on the seals every so often. You can add a multi shot breech with a magazine but that feels a bit pointless when its a multi pump for each shot type of rifle. The 2250 on the other hand is a real fun little co2 version when you add the multi shot breech, but the need to keep the co2 bottles on hand takes away from the "survival minimalist" mindset.

Oh and +1 on the Hilux, Love them. My son has a 1991 LN100 2.8D which is just fantastic.

Crosman 1322comes up as a pistol?  I've used a few.  Sidearm in the infantry was a 1911 Hi Power in 9mm parabellum, but I wouldn't want one for survival.   

Just back from 3 days away and had another play today with the .25.

Best group of 8 was .481 at 20m, but that was with a right to left variable breeze.  At 30m, I didn't bother with a measure.  The breeze had picked up.  I'll have to sort out MPBR as they were 2cm at that point.  Is that usual for a magnum .25?  Pellets are 25.39 JSB Diabolo Exact Match, so quite light for .25.  

Still haven't received the other 3 lots of pellets I ordered, but with a .481 group at 20m in a breeze and with close to 300 pellets through the rifle since new, I'm picking that's workable anyhow.

I'll get back inside tomorrow and 30m group them again now the tube is leaded in.  See how that goes. 

OK got ya!   Would be a handy EDC format for spontaneous kai gathering.

But, for all the mods, why not just a carbine in the same cal?

I put over 2000 rounds through a 1911 and still wouldn't have wanted a person sized target at above 30m.   And that was 9mm.

Where can I buy an Air Arms under lever .22?   Or Wehirauch HW50?

Or, given the expertise on here, what would be the other options I can get in a quality .22? 

What's the Diana you have comiing?

Kruza,

Before you sell the HW97 you need to see if the Diana can better the 172m shot you did with the Wiehrach!  Still amazed that you pulled that off - more than once.....

Wicked, thanks,I'll have a gaze!

That's sensible.  Compare them both at their best, not one at their best and the other at its worst.