First semi-serious target shooting the oldHW80K...
Printed From: Kiwi Airgunners
Category: Target Shooting and Clubs
Forum Name: Target Shooting
Forum Description: Think you are a good shot? Show is in here!
URL: www.kiwiairgunners.co.nz/forum_posts.asp?TID=1098
Printed Date: 23 Nov 2024 at 9:19am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 10.14 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: First semi-serious target shooting the oldHW80K...
Posted By: JasonEdward
Subject: First semi-serious target shooting the oldHW80K...
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2024 at 1:29pm
|
OK, new Timu/Alliexpress (i just can't remember which ha ha) slug catcher, light chip board back board and S/S self-draining fire pit base (AKA a shower tray) behind just in case as I haven't shot like this before at home. I even wore eye protection because I know I should and last time shooting with my son off the deck we had riccochet slugs whistling over our heads and seeming fast enough that eye protection was sensible so I ordered some cheap shooting glasses. HW80 I think about 6 years ago Ron Young mounted the scope after checking my slightly rusty old newly bought old hand rifle was shooting as it should and I don't think I've adjusted the scope since. I'm pretty happy with a few quick shots cut short when the rains came. My first attempt at slightly longer range, a measured 18.5 m prone, no rests, hand held open palm, target at ground level so not a very comfy shoot angle. Usually I'm shooting about 12-14 m from the deck hand held but resting on a BBQ table. Very pleased with first three shots, but also sure I can hold steadier than that with fore-stock rest/bench/whatever. Second three were rushed with rain starting - Anyway, that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it. :-) But frankly I'm not too unhappy with those rushed shots and I prefer 10 shoot groups ideally if I'm really wanting to properly see if I can shoot because consistent repeatable accuracy is the only accuracy worth having. It's little more than a good start but I'm glad on a whim I decided to shoot some lead and test the pellet trap, which does a great job flattening those .22s - you can see some of them on the target. And at least I now know I can hit the target and don't need the shower tray but I will sort a bigger back board that can't riccochet. I think I'll experiment with a solid heavy cardboard box lined at the back with 3 or 4 layers camp bed foam and filled with God knows what at this stage... With a bench rest I can stretch the back yard range to 22 or 23 m but that's maximum requiring a lot more setup. I'm stoked, had a good time, and while I need much more practice there's potential and I had a great time during the ten minute sesh. Thanks to you lot on this forum for getting me off my arse and a little more serious about pitching lead around the back yard. Now it's time to tidy up the house for an esteemed guest visiting tonight.    e for a revered guest tonight.
|
Replies:
Posted By: RangerPete
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2024 at 4:28pm
|
Hi Mark, Well done for getting the first few shots down range. And well done for getting into the prone position... I cant! I couldnt be bothered to get down, get up again, get down, get up again... Kills me to lie on my tummy and lift my head up that high to shoulder a rifle. kills my neck. Gosh I'm getting old and grumpy! Eye protection isn never a bad idea. I often use it when I'm doing close work like chronographing. Although with my latest DIY pellet traps I dont feel the need to anymore. Those cheep little metal pellet traps that you have do the job, but I find over time they get dented and dont last. They are also loud. I searched for a long time to find the best pellet trap and tried many things, eventually I have found the one thats best for me. I'll do a little thread on them, they are so easy and cheep and are excellent at stopping pellets. ------------- Walk quietly, but carry a big stick. |
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2024 at 5:03pm
|
I see you got the inevitable flyer in there. One of the great joys of pellets, one always turns up per group. Thats all good grouping (flyer discounted) you'll tighten up if that's the start. Just remember if your accuracy starts to go out window, check the tightness of everything on gun, springers jolt screws loose. |
Posted By: nunga
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2024 at 5:28pm
|
Dont worry about the targets...when are we taking the boat out fishing? :) ------------- 2nd place HP springer - WFTF World Championships 2014 |
Posted By: RangerPete
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2024 at 5:42pm
 Nunga, I saw that too...I know how hard it is to find good crew these days, so if you need some fishing crew.... ------------- Walk quietly, but carry a big stick. |
Posted By: JasonEdward
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2024 at 2:33am
Thanks for your kind and encouraging words.I was not at all surprised the last 3 were all over the place had no confidence with those more rushed shots when the rsin was starting. Good point and reminder - I keep meaning to check the screws and it's time I did. Cheers M ------------- |
kruzaroad wrote:Posted By: JasonEdward
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2024 at 2:35am
|
Maybe I need to find some bunnies and you good bastards come to Waihi for a shoot and a fish. ------------- |
Posted By: RangerPete
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2024 at 11:37am
|
I’m all in for a road trip, some hunting and fishing 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 Even just a morning spent on a shooting range sending some hot lead downrange with a few like minded shooters 👍🏻 ------------- Walk quietly, but carry a big stick. |
Posted By: Pauly5
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2024 at 9:12pm
|
I have some drawings for making a shooting bench. It can be made from one sheet of 18 mm ply and can be collapsed for storage. So maybe a bench and I find it good having a small bean back supporting my front hand holding the gun. I think the measurements are inches, but there should be enough info there to do the job. I am going to make one when I get a sheet of ply. One tip is don't paint the top white, as it will be too glarey.
 |
Posted By: JasonEdward
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2024 at 1:34pm
 Sounds like a great idea Paul.Quick jig saw job and all go - thanks again for referring me to Tim. Picked up the Cyclone yesterday and had a good yarn with him. Another loss to we Kiwis and a gain for the Aussies when he shifts there... I'm already finding the FX is way better than I am but can see the huge potential. I've not even rested/relaxed enough using either the HW or the FX at my newer 18m distance to not see significant heart beat waivers and I'll likely up the trigger pressure - I guess Rod has it set light for quick shooting pigeons. Anyway I'm sure i can improve but the FX is already next level accuracy... It is already clear getting accuracy is much easier with the PCP but two quick magazines with rain again on starting the second 8 shots and I'm very impressed. A few "flyers" there but frankly I prefer to call them EPs "Epic Failures" rather than flyers...there are no excuses and I can and will do better but you pros and your vids are a fcukin hard act to follow! :-) And sh*t I can get through a lot of pellets quickly with a bolt action compared to a springer! |
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2024 at 3:21pm
|
Looks deadly to me. Have no dought that grouping will shrink with familiarity. There's no comparison to a springer, pcp are way better and as you say has the mag. Looking forward to seeing a few pics and review at some stage. |
Posted By: Pauly5
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2024 at 3:47pm
|
That's great. I would recommend giving the barrel a clean and with the mags, lay them on the bench and a very light dusting of silicone spray. This helps lube the O ring and can aid in loading each pellet. There are the 3 power settings too. So you can experiment with them too. If you use the higher setting I would recommend jsb 10.3 or H&N barracuda. They were what I used when I had one of those. Makes me miss the one I had.
|
Posted By: JasonEdward
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2024 at 5:26pm
|
Thanks guys, I have some Baracudas in 177 (10.65 gr), and yes, have only shot at low power in the back yard so far. Any idea at what pressure it's wise to fill the tank to keep accuracy? The rifle had in it and is down to about 150 bar now maybe 30 shots later. I got the Scuba fittings from Ron so no problem there but those who have had a Cyclone likely have some useful info...there does not seem to be a lot online re the Cyclones, but enough I was happy with Paul's recommendation to buy it. So far, it's absolutely living up to expectation and I'd expect to do a little better more relaxed but that trigger is set way way lighter than anything I've used before and I'll adjust it for sure because a stray finger would easily fire it at the moment and I've before never had a rifle I worry about accidentally firing due to what I'd call a hair trigger. But easily fixed... Also the zero recoil is amazing; the first time I fired it when I got home in darkness only the wee "ping" let me know it had fired...I had to have another shot to make sure and I definitely killed one of my carport supports. |
Posted By: RangerPete
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2024 at 7:24pm
|
Hi Mark, Glad you are enjoying the new pcp, and yes, pellets can disappear very quickly when you have a bolt action and a full mag Would be interesting to know what the three different power levels are on your cyclone. The JSB 8.44 grain pellets are my go to for around 12FPE .177's. Excellent pellets that I have used for many years and have done some extradorinaty things with, even if I do say so my self. Dont worry about the flyers, they happen. There are a few things you can do to try reduce them, but ultimately you just have to live with one every now and again. Personally I like a light, TWO STAGE trigger. But I have a habit of only bringing my finger down onto the trigger once I'm already looking through my scope and my crosshairs are already hovering on the target. PCP's are great, but i do still have a very soft spot for springers. Maybe its nostalgia, maybe its just from their long tradition and history that springers have, but I do love shooting a good quality springer in a hand crafted wooden stock. Its something special. ------------- Walk quietly, but carry a big stick. |
Posted By: JasonEdward
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2024 at 10:12pm
|
Pete, My Chinese chrono gave me the following fps from the Cyclone with about 135 bar with the 8.44 Gr Diablos - fps is an average of 2 but I think down from that pressure power is dropping away quite quickly so fps likely to be very approximate:
It's the only chrono figures I have from the FX but I'll fill it up and test muz V of the Diablos and the Baracudas when i get a chance. I did a fps test once in low power then lost the data on the chrono with more pressure but but getting down at 155 - ish and from memory I think it gave in the 220m/s or about 720 f/s. - I later set th chrono to f/s... |
Posted By: Pauly5
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2024 at 11:26pm
|
I had fitted a reg into mine and it was quite a few years ago that I had it, so can't remember some of the details like that unfortunately. |
Posted By: RangerPete
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2024 at 9:10am
|
Pauly, from the fact that u fitted a reg into yours, is it safe to assume that the standard cyclone was not regulated? Mark, those r good figures and a nice versatile rifle. If it is regulated it will keep those figures from the maximum fill pressure, which is probably around 200 or 230bar, all the way down to where the reg is set, maybe around 100ish bar? (just a guess). If it is not regulated you will need to work out the “sweet spot”, which is where the rifle performs most consistently as the pressure drops. Just as an example this might be from 190bar down to 130 bar. Once you have worked out where the sweet spot is, there will be no point filling it up to more than 190bar, and you will know that when u get to 130 it’s time to refill. If it were mine I would use it as follows: With an 8.44gr pellet 670fps is giving 8.4FPE, which is perfect for plinking at home as well as rats mice, small birds up to dove and myna. Could also do close range head shots on rabbits if you are confident with your accuracy. Usable distance is subjective and depends on your confidence and the accuracy of the pellet, rifle and shooter combo, but out to around 20ish yards would be fine for hunting/pesting. If u r just shooting at fans or spinners, then as far as u want. At 820fps you are getting 12.6FPE and I would use that for all the above plus pigeons and rabbits, out to 50 or 60yards, assuming accuracy is there. At 900fps you are getting 15.2FPE which is overkill for the small stuff (but still works of course) and I would use it for everything up to possum size pests, again at distances you are comfortable with. ------------- Walk quietly, but carry a big stick. |
Posted By: JasonEdward
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2024 at 10:50am
|
Thanks Pete, No regulator on the older Cyclone. My somewhat subjective view is that when pressure dropped down to under 140 velocity/force starts to drop fast - I was missing some plinker steel targets that should have been easy. I'll throw some more lead around with chrono as pressure drops and see what happens... Paul, You fitted a regulator to yours... I assume for more consistent shots? You would need more for pest destruction I guess. I'm not yet feeling a need for a regulator but if I was shooting as straight as you expert guys do then it would become more important when pressure drops enough that it's the rifle's fault the groups open out...in which case I have a couple of old dive regulators in good nick I might use. I think I started with the bottle at around 180 when i bought it and have put around 100 shots through it, all but 4 shots (for the chrono) at low power so my guess is I should expect the un-reg pressure drop to start showing itself. NB You will no doubt be realising I am a bit of a propellor head and like knowing the stats...so sooner or later in the back yard I'll chrono each power setting as the pressure drops from a full tank and see what happens. I think the China-chrono is working OK but fails and needs a shade with any direct sun at all. Wireless to phone it don't do and I paid for that and Alliexpress was not helpful at all but hey, it's a cheapie and works as well as I could expect so all good and gives me something to grizzle about - without something to bitch about we can't really be 100% happy right? :-) |
Posted By: Pauly5
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2024 at 10:08am
|
Yes Pete, not regulated from factory. Mark, you are on the right track. It's best to fill it to full, which is probably 200 bar +/- Then shoot a complete shot string recording the pellet speed and tank pressure (pressure at end of every mag). In theory the first few shots will be slow, then it will rise, plateau then drop. This will give you a power curve on a graph. So this will tell you the good working pressure to fill to and how many useful shots to expect per fill for that particular pellet. So filling over 180 bar might actually be a waste of air, and the graph will tell you at what pressure the curve starts to plateau. Then back that data up with POI drop/rise groups.
|
Posted By: JasonEdward
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2024 at 11:27am
|
Thanks Paul - that makes a lot of sense and spells out exactly what i need to do. But TBH, I need to improve my shooting... at least start using a bench rest which for some reason my very old fashioned hunting trained brain tells me is cheating. Target shooting with low heart beat is just not going to happen in a paddock :-) Why I favour using my front arm and maybe FTT shooting but my arm is very clearly less stable than a rest. But rests are the status quo for much target shooting and it makes sense to do everything to get good groups while learning and especially while testing un-regulated pressure's affect on V and trajectory. I have some sand bags to fill... Paul is there any other details with that ply bench plan? Maybe a better file? I think it's an excellent idea and just what I need for shotting across the full width of my back yard... I'm thinking of visiting the Morrinsville FTT meeting 26th or 27th of next month for a look-see. Will any of you forum members be there - it would be good to catch up... |
Posted By: JasonEdward
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2024 at 1:33pm
|
Interesting - just went out for a quick couple of mags. I accidentally left the setting at highest of the 3 - which is where I left it after chrono last time out...after these 16 shots the gauge showed spot on 120 bar. It is my first group at high power but air tank getting down - either the rifle likes this or I'm improving. I do feel I'm holding on the bull better but...this is not yet convincing me that the FX C wants more air...I think I'll keep shooting this same tank of air until the groups turn to custard. 
|
Posted By: RangerPete
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2024 at 3:22pm
|
Looking good! I'd say on high power it likes the 8.44s ------------- Walk quietly, but carry a big stick. |
Posted By: JasonEdward
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2024 at 11:00am
|
She still shoots on with accuracy! Just 95 bar left! Yeah time to fill her up but I am VERY surprised she still shoots consistently... Using high power so maybe that makes her wrestle every last bit of performance from the tank. I'll do a chrono at this low pressure and then fill her up for the first time - I must have had around 200 shots from the 180 or 90 bar she held when I bought her... 
|
Posted By: Pauly5
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2024 at 11:25am
|
So it's probably more efficient at high power. The power wheel is only 3 different sized port holes, so gun uses the same air for each shot, and it's likely that low power just restricts flow and after the pellet has left the barrel, air is still being released, where high power all the air is transfered to the pellet. Sounds like high power is the better setting, especially if it's more accurate. Too much air disturbance behind the pellet could cause inaccuracy. |
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2024 at 12:50pm
|
I can see a springer being a thing of the past. That's great results. Who can complain about taking that sort of shot capabolity into the field. Don't know if its any use to you but page 87 of you got to be out there too see, Pauly drew up a graph of the power curve of a pcp pistol I was playing with. Could be something worth doing with yours if you haven't. |
Posted By: JasonEdward
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2024 at 1:45pm
|
Yeah mate but the springers are cheap and frankly I went PCP simply because my springers are too heavy for standing shooting - or in spite of my Armstrong name, I'm way too weak. :-) Both Paul and Pete have been very helpful in advising how to plot a power accuracy curve but so far I'm amazed there is much of either left at under 100 bar...makes me want to keep trying as the tank empties ha ha. Maybe I also need to try low power with low pressure. Hmmmm....stuff the work. Best I do that now. 
|
Posted By: JasonEdward
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2024 at 3:24pm
|
Well, I just took it down from 95 bar to 60 in 4 mags. Quick shooting 4 mags meant quite loose groups but POI well, I felt hi power as expected, medium about the same, low power went left. But 60 bar POI/Power/FPS little different from my last chrono with 135 bar which gave Ft/sec 673.8, 820.7, 896.2 with high power at 135 bar 896, today 907. That 907 at say 80 bar simply cannot be too much under power at max 220 bar surely...and these are averages and now that my Chinese chrono friend has a cardboard coolie hat it is much more reliable. I think I need a wider section for 50 m trials.  But yeah, this is all pretty much a bit of fun. Next fill I'll get methodical and try to plot a power curve at High Power, then do Medium and low - if I can be bothered...now I need to do some dusk cruising to find some farmer's doors to knock on. I have already have one paddock in mind I've seen plenty of bunnies in a few years ago during mid-night manoeuvres.... .  
|
Posted By: JasonEdward
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2024 at 11:57am
|
Groups tighten up a little more - still prone but now using a sand bag rest under the forestock. Full tank Cyclone starting with 200 bar, 16 shots at High Power, just 18.5 meters but I'm getting there...I'm having trouble getting image to appear here...  |