Kiwi Airgunners Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Technical > Pauly's Technical Area
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - 3/8 mounts the same as 11mm???
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

3/8 mounts the same as 11mm???
 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Elliot87 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2023
Location: Christchurch
Status: Offline
Posts: 100 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 3/8 mounts the same as 11mm???
    Posted: 26 Feb 2023 at 12:31pm
So I'm looking at Nikko Stirling Airking scopes and they come with a 3/8ths single piece scope mount.  I'm not 100% sure but I think the Gamo CF-S Big Cat I'm getting has 11mm dovetails.

My understanding is that 3/8 and 11mm are not the same, not only is the diameter different (although I read that if measured at the same point they are...?) but the angle is also different, 11m is 60 degrees vs 45 degrees for the 3/8.

With that in mind I emailed a supplier outdoorsupplies.co.nz to ask if they also sold the scope with an 11mm mount.  This was there reply "The 11mm and 3/8" dovetails are the same thing, they dont make two sizes its just some call in imperial and some metric"

So now I am a little confused. I don't think the supplier is correct but I have read other people saying the same thing on various forums.  Can anyone shed any light for this for me? If I have 11mm dovetails will I need to buy additional 11mm mounts and discard the 3/8 mounts that come with the scope?  I'm looking at dampa mounts but they are quite pricey and I don't know if I will need them, the rifle is shooting at around 13.5ft/lbs and has the gamo recoil reducing rail thing by the looks of it.

Thanks
Pom that wants to be a kiwi
Back to Top
Elliot87 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2023
Location: Christchurch
Status: Offline
Posts: 100 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2023 at 12:32pm
This is the website that leads me to believe the dealer is wrong. https://www.optics-trade.eu/blog/11-mm-and-3-8-dovetails/

"But the difference between these two standards is not only in the measurement unit with which they are named. The “11 mm” in the European dovetail marks the width of the dovetail measured across the top, while the 3/8” in the American dovetail marks the width of the dovetail measured across the bottom as shown in the picture below. The American dovetail actually measures 12.7 mm across the top which means that it is wider than the 11 mm dovetail.

However, that is not the only difference between the two dovetails. They also have different groove angles as shown below. The 11 mm dovetail has a 60-degree angle, while the 3/8” dovetail has a 45-degree angle."
Pom that wants to be a kiwi
Back to Top
mercs View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 24 Apr 2020
Location: Stratford
Status: Offline
Posts: 272 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mercs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2023 at 3:58pm
Gamo will be 11mm, the recoil reducing rail technology is ineffective however they are useful as risers and the back section can be used as a stop block instead of a stop pin on your mount or rings.

Gamo rail leave on or take off no difference but can be useful for sight height/comfort.
The rail will move the stop hole forward 25mm which you may need or not.
The Nikko Stirling scope is a good length so you should have no issues from either location.

One piece mount with stop pin - good choice
When I look at the Gamo and NS mounts the angles and possibly some measurements are slightly different but both work on 11mm rails in this case so I believe you have been advised correctly.

Nikko Stirling Scope - purchased after 2018 so Lifetime original owner warranty will apply so keep all documentation, removes all risks really.


Right Nikko Stirling one piece mount ? hex heads and in this instance grub screws no stop pin which is useless for a springer.
Top Gamo one piece medium mount $60 Torx heads - stop pin placed well back - ok for the price and will come with Gamo's larger scopes.
Bottom Gamo Recoil Reducing Rail $60



Rail pulls apart to reveal polymer tubes which can also be removed with pliers.
Provides a riser and stop block. can be rotated giving 5mm difference on th rail.
I have also cut and used to strengthen other brands with plastic components.
So do not throw away.




Edited by mercs - 26 Feb 2023 at 4:03pm
Back to Top
Elliot87 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2023
Location: Christchurch
Status: Offline
Posts: 100 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2023 at 7:08pm
Thanks mercs for the quick and very helpful reply. I have been reading your thread "Sub $400 scopes with adjustable objectives" as a starting point on which scope to buy.  You don't mention the Air King 3-9x42 but describe the 4-12x42 as "...indestructible junk really and would not be without one." The 3-9x42 Air King fits my budget and what I need from a scope, and is also one of only two air rated scopes for sale at the dealer I'm picking my rifle up from, so is an obvious choice.  I'm glad to hear that I ought to be able to use the mounts it comes with.

Originally posted by mercs mercs wrote:

Gamo will be 11mm, the recoil reducing rail technology is ineffective however they are useful as risers and the back section can be used as a stop block instead of a stop pin on your mount or rings.
I suspected they were ineffective but I will see what works best, with or without when mounting the scope.

One piece mount with stop pin - good choice So the Air King mount should have a stop pin?


Right Nikko Stirling one piece mount ? hex heads and in this instance grub screws no stop pin which is useless for a springer. Do you suspect the pictured mount here will be different from the one supplied with the Air King, ie no stop pin?





If I have any issues wjen mounting the scope I know who to ask. I've mounted several scopes before but mostly on pcps and with no stop pin or aditional riser/recoild reduction device.
Pom that wants to be a kiwi
Back to Top
mercs View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 24 Apr 2020
Location: Stratford
Status: Offline
Posts: 272 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote mercs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2023 at 7:28pm
No worries, I have a 2-7x32AO AirKing scope for plinking which was great value at $150 however Nikko Stirling stock levels do not seem to have recovered post lockdown so well done for finding one.

I have been impressed with Tasco and more recently ZeroTech scopes for surviving on my springers but tend to fit them with SportsMatch Dampa mounts for a bit of protection so an additional $160 per setup and they are currently unavailable until March. 

I want the lifetime warranty and know that Nikko Stirling, Tasco, ZeroTech and Bushnell will meet their commitment. 

That could be a good post - worst scope disaster and warranty return tall tales.
Back to Top
mercs View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 24 Apr 2020
Location: Stratford
Status: Offline
Posts: 272 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote mercs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2023 at 8:21pm
I note the new mounts have two screw holes as opposed to the 3 on my base so hopefully different.
I could not find a picture of the underside for a later model AirKing mount. 
Using the pointed grub screws on the aluminium rail is probably fine and I expect they may line up with a predrilled hole and could possibly act as a stop pin though on mine the threads are not long enough.
When mounted directly on the  rifle chamber there is a real risk they will damage the finish and highly likely to move and gouge the metal and I recommend removing the screws completely.

For anyone interested - Where there is no stop pin or stop hole then clean the mount and dovetail grooves then Loctite sparingly along the contact face, I have done this with a 4 screw mount on a high power Crosman and it never moved and it also disassembled easily. Not a cheap option buyng cleaner and loctite but less risk than drilling or machining rifle parts.

Please see below how I utilise the Gamo rear rail section as an effective backstop.
Back to Top
Elliot87 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2023
Location: Christchurch
Status: Offline
Posts: 100 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2023 at 12:49am
Thank you again for the advice. I like how you have used a portion of the gamo rail as a backstop.  I'll consider doing that if it makes sense.
Pom that wants to be a kiwi
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 10.14
Copyright ©2001-2012 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.051 seconds.