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Paintball to .22 pellet conversion.
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Update.. nothing on this one..
BUT, i did get a couple more cheap paintball guns of Trademe to hatch some more evil plans. Both are electric triggers which a very light compared to the current mechanical.

Current project has a long bolt insert which acts as a transfer port of around 70mm. Is this wasted space for gas expansion, or does it aid in power?

The next project may be a pistol version; if I make the barrel transfer port directly over the valve (like a crosman 2250), should this provide better use of the gas?
(Im a springer fan at heart so this gas stuff is a bit less known).

Below is a quick preview idea of project number 2:


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the trick with co2 is that its pointless to have more co2 getting into the system than can expand behind the pellet leaves the barrel,its a case of more co2 than the gun can effectivly use to propel the pellets from the barrel,more co2 dosnt mean neccessarly mean more power,co2 runs at 900/1100 psi depending on temp,and dosnt increase past these pressures,it propells the pellet by expanding from liquid to a gas and its this expanding to a gas thats the propellent at a constant pressure,once the liquid has expanded to the gas it wont expand anymore,the idea is to get as close as possible to the amount of gas that will completly fill the barrel behind the pellet when it leaves the barrel,no more no less,its really all about making the most efficent use of this amount of expanding gas,the rest of it is getting the valve right,opening up and free flowing the valve,allows the liquid/gas flow thru that valve as fast and freely as possible into the barrel,co2 is thicker than air and needs to transition from a liquid to a gas,liquid co2 has a constant pressure so is esentually self regulating,you then need to calculate how far and how long the valve needs to be open to allow the set amount of co2 thru the valve to reach the performance its capble of giving you realtive to barrel length and caliber,all this technical sh*t is the theory of how it should work but you can figure most it out by experimenting with the valve,hammer spring tensions and a bit of patience like most of us have done.all part the fun and keeps you outa the pub figuring it all out eh!!
 cheers mike
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Originally posted by dvlnme dvlnme wrote:

the trick with co2 is that its pointless to have more co2 getting into the system than can expand behind the pellet leaves the barrel,its a case of more co2 than the gun can effectivly use to propel the pellets from the barrel,more co2 dosnt mean neccessarly mean more power,co2 runs at 900/1100 psi depending on temp,and dosnt increase past these pressures,it propells the pellet by expanding from liquid to a gas and its this expanding to a gas thats the propellent at a constant pressure,once the liquid has expanded to the gas it wont expand anymore,the idea is to get as close as possible to the amount of gas that will completly fill the barrel behind the pellet when it leaves the barrel,no more no less,its really all about making the most efficent use of this amount of expanding gas,the rest of it is getting the valve right,opening up and free flowing the valve,allows the liquid/gas flow thru that valve as fast and freely as possible into the barrel,co2 is thicker than air and needs to transition from a liquid to a gas,liquid co2 has a constant pressure so is esentually self regulating,you then need to calculate how far and how long the valve needs to be open to allow the set amount of co2 thru the valve to reach the performance its capble of giving you realtive to barrel length and caliber,all this technical sh*t is the theory of how it should work but you can figure most it out by experimenting with the valve,hammer spring tensions and a bit of patience like most of us have done.all part the fun and keeps you outa the pub figuring it all out eh!!
 cheers mike


Cheers! A lot to lear and certainly fun playing...

I did have another idea, but tollerances may be a little tight to make successfully, and dont know if it would work well anyway...
But using the semi - auto blowback system + a self indexing .22 mag and a slim probe like a crosman 2250 to feed the pellets and seal the breach to make a semi-auto .22.

Gas is wasted on the blowback, so it wouldnt be high power, but should be ok for a pistol..

Just ideas for now
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Posts: 519 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dvlnme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2020 at 9:38am
getting the timing right is big deal with semi autos,breech really needs stay closed until pellet gas either just left barrel or is about to and that may have to depend one the strength of bolt return spring in this design,its a balancing act if trigger dosnt have a disconnector mechanism the gun will go full auto,the disconnector should catch hammer on rebound and then prevent hammer from recontacting the hammer and opening valve again,hammer bounce is a problem with most pcp and co2 guns,not really an issue with a hand operated bolt as no more pellets being feed to breech,so just wastes propellent etc,with a semi auto the dissconnector catchs hammer and holds it even when trigger is still pulled back from first shot,when trigger is released to fire next shot it reengages the the hammer sear to fire next shot,a full auto sear the dissconnector between hammer and trigger is over ridden when trigger is pulled this allows the action to continue functioning on full auto as long as trigger is pulled and there is ammo in the mag,just a reminder that full auto airguns are illegal in nz.
 to explain a lttle clearer a dissconnector is a mechanical part of a trigger that operates independantly of the actual trigger that catchs and holds a hammer in its full cocked position after being cocked by th bolt reciplicating to the rear,and hold hammer in full cock notch until trigger is released when trigger then engages the true full cock notch,holds it there until trigger is pulled again to fire next shot,all semi autos have some form of dissconnector in the trigger,getting this right and to function correctly maybe your biggest head ache for you semi auto co2 guns,as for blow back cycling the action using unused co2,thats still in barrel ,thats another very different issue,most semi auto bb guns use some form of blow back,most semi auto pellet guns are use some form of blow back to recock the action but neither are true semi autos in the true sense as they dont chamber a bb or pellet but fire them directly from their mags,this is very different to what you are thinking about,been toying with the concept of true semi auto pcp guns for some time,just for the hell of it,it can be done as fx and others have proven,but its not quiet as simple as it may seem,there are two bassic ways to go about this,one,the most common used for rifles is to bleed co2/hpa from barrel usually at muzzle and redirect it to cycle bolt and action,the other way is to use one the various ways of delaying the breech from opening until pellet is about to leave barrel and the use this residual co2 or hpa to cycle the action and load another pellet on return stoke of the bolt,thelater system is the only practical way to doso in a pistol as it operstes essentually to a recoil operated semi auto pistol,but without using recoil as airguns have no usable recoil,second world war german belt feed machine guns work on this delayed breech opening system as do several modern machine gus,its simple and absolutly reliable,bit long winded but interesting topic for sure,nobody yet has produced a truely practical semi auto pcp pistol as those acailable are simply cut down semi auto pcp rifles minus their buttstocks,sawn off rifles essentually,too big and heavy to be practical pistols as sawn off rifles usually are,there have been several true semi auto co2 handguns the old crosman 600 being one the first and still a goody today if you can find one,the fun of messing around with different co2 projects is there lot potentual for all sorts projects,dont give up on your paintball projects if nothing else they will keep you occupied and out of the pub eh!!
 cheers mike
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Originally posted by dvlnme dvlnme wrote:

getting the timing right is big deal with semi autos,breech really needs stay closed until pellet gas either just left barrel or is about to and that may have to depend one the strength of bolt return spring in this design,its a balancing act if trigger dosnt have a disconnector mechanism the gun will go full auto,the disconnector should catch hammer on rebound and then prevent hammer from recontacting the hammer and opening valve again,hammer bounce is a problem with most pcp and co2 guns,not really an issue with a hand operated bolt as no more pellets being feed to breech,so just wastes propellent etc,with a semi auto the dissconnector catchs hammer and holds it even when trigger is still pulled back from first shot,when trigger is released to fire next shot it reengages the the hammer sear to fire next shot,a full auto sear the dissconnector between hammer and trigger is over ridden when trigger is pulled this allows the action to continue functioning on full auto as long as trigger is pulled and there is ammo in the mag,just a reminder that full auto airguns are illegal in nz.
 to explain a lttle clearer a dissconnector is a mechanical part of a trigger that operates independantly of the actual trigger that catchs and holds a hammer in its full cocked position after being cocked by th bolt reciplicating to the rear,and hold hammer in full cock notch until trigger is released when trigger then engages the true full cock notch,holds it there until trigger is pulled again to fire next shot,all semi autos have some form of dissconnector in the trigger,getting this right and to function correctly maybe your biggest head ache for you semi auto co2 guns,as for blow back cycling the action using unused co2,thats still in barrel ,thats another very different issue,most semi auto bb guns use some form of blow back,most semi auto pellet guns are use some form of blow back to recock the action but neither are true semi autos in the true sense as they dont chamber a bb or pellet but fire them directly from their mags,this is very different to what you are thinking about,been toying with the concept of true semi auto pcp guns for some time,just for the hell of it,it can be done as fx and others have proven,but its not quiet as simple as it may seem,there are two bassic ways to go about this,one,the most common used for rifles is to bleed co2/hpa from barrel usually at muzzle and redirect it to cycle bolt and action,the other way is to use one the various ways of delaying the breech from opening until pellet is about to leave barrel and the use this residual co2 or hpa to cycle the action and load another pellet on return stoke of the bolt,thelater system is the only practical way to doso in a pistol as it operstes essentually to a recoil operated semi auto pistol,but without using recoil as airguns have no usable recoil,second world war german belt feed machine guns work on this delayed breech opening system as do several modern machine gus,its simple and absolutly reliable,bit long winded but interesting topic for sure,nobody yet has produced a truely practical semi auto pcp pistol as those acailable are simply cut down semi auto pcp rifles minus their buttstocks,sawn off rifles essentually,too big and heavy to be practical pistols as sawn off rifles usually are,there have been several true semi auto co2 handguns the old crosman 600 being one the first and still a goody today if you can find one,the fun of messing around with different co2 projects is there lot potentual for all sorts projects,dont give up on your paintball projects if nothing else they will keep you occupied and out of the pub eh!!
 cheers mike

Cheers Mike! Yeah this was just an idea for something that 'may work'.. paintball guns have the transfer port in a large bolt, and as its joined to the hammer the hole in bolt lines up with valve hole beneath it to release gas at correct time. These models use the gas to have a small portion flow back through the valve to reset the hammer on the trigger sear. BUT, they are fairly basic and crude; i imagine these entry level guns arent designed for best use of gas and consistency. 

Perhaps the idea could be used as single shot, but using the magazine for a multishot version.. 

These are just a little bit of fun to play around with, help keep me thinking.. 

the idea of 4 weeks lockdown sounded great, heaps of time to tinker... But that didnt take into consderation having an intense 2 & 1/2 year old running around, and the wife and I trying to get in full time work! i havent been able to do a thing
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know that feeling we got a daughter and her two kids staying with us,one them an 18month old toddler with too many brains and lot energy,keeps me busy trying to out smart the little bugger and finding the things he will get into before he does,call hin the termit because he gets into everything and finds every little hole in my defenses i put up to keep him safe.not sure whos winning the battle yet as hes just started climbing every thing,had change the pipe gates out to tanker track,as he climbed the ones we had,had new gates made at considerable expense with no horizontal rails so cant climb them,then little bugger was trying to get under the gates but got stuck as they were too close to ground to fit under,had put double latchs on all the gates around house coz he figured out how to open them,too clever by far for his age eh!!but keeps me on my toes and liked you not getting much workshop time on my projects.
 cheers mike
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Toddlers are nuts, Mike. Great fun seeing them grow up, learn new things, etc, but they are nuts. 

In 4 weeks of lockdown I have managed to shoot 3 pellets, and cut a groove in an alloy suppressor adapter so it fits firm inside a paintball marker with an o ring. Such a small achievement felt mighty, as its the only thing i have done between working from home and entertaining a 2.5 year old!  
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The paintball gun is off down to a certain tinkerer that is going to make the final bits to get the paintball project functioning: Bushes for the barrel sleeving, probe insert, suppressor etc. 

Looking forward to getting it technically working so I can check the power and balance the springs etc to stop the hammer bouncing. 
May do a little more work on removing meat from the valve body for a touch more volume, if it is needed. 

Then may look at making a stock for it out of a chunk of rimu I have laying around.
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Air Arms TX200('s)
Theoben Sirocco
HW77
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sounds good bud,i never give up on a project build until its either completed or ends up its just not guna work after trying everything and if needed pick everyones brains til figure it out,i got one project here am still working on after 5 years on and off,but been making good progress under lock down so am back at it again,will never give up on this one got toooo much time invested now for that,and am now very close to completing it now finally,seen some interesting paint ball to airgun s on overseas forums,so can be done mate,a company in US turns paintball guns into awsume belt feed 22 cal pellet firing machine guns,so anything possible,you got want it bad enuf eh!!
 cheers mike
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Originally posted by dvlnme dvlnme wrote:

sounds good bud,i never give up on a project build until its either completed or ends up its just not guna work after trying everything and if needed pick everyones brains til figure it out,i got one project here am still working on after 5 years on and off,but been making good progress under lock down so am back at it again,will never give up on this one got toooo much time invested now for that,and am now very close to completing it now finally,seen some interesting paint ball to airgun s on overseas forums,so can be done mate,a company in US turns paintball guns into awsume belt feed 22 cal pellet firing machine guns,so anything possible,you got want it bad enuf eh!!
 cheers mike

If thats the revolver project, I recall it on the other forum - VERY impressive. 

The belt fed air rifle does look interesting. looking at the diagram the cycling looks simple - if you had the machines and skill to recreate. 
The company is a Tippman company - possibly the idea brought by the paintball company or an offshoot of the paintball gun company. Either way, interesting concept. 
J S Airguns
Air Arms TX200('s)
Theoben Sirocco
HW77
FWB 300s
Webley Patriot
One or two others...

Current projects:
Too many..
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