The $100 challenge.....

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   I love what you've done with the trigger.

This has been a great thread so far, as it has brought out some great thinking from everyone.

You give me too much credit Kiwi, I am really only regurgitating what i've learnt from others.

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Pauly5 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Forum Moderator Joined: 11 Mar 2013 Location: Titahi Bay Status: Offline Posts: 1663	Post Options Post Reply Quote Pauly5 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 Sep 2023 at 12:44pm
	I love what you've done with the trigger. This has been a great thread so far, as it has brought out some great thinking from everyone. You give me too much credit Kiwi, I am really only regurgitating what i've learnt from others.

KiwiTR6 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 04 Nov 2022 Location: Stratford Status: Offline Posts: 382	Post Options Post Reply Quote KiwiTR6 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 Sep 2023 at 2:58pm
	Paul I'm doing exactly the same as you, learning as I go - YouTube is such a great resource. Started on Stage 2 tonight but didn't get very far. I'd sourced some 0.5mm PTFE sheet from my friends at AliExpress but I failed to take account of the fact that the piston is swaged in at the centre so it's too snug a fit on the spring. I can get it in without too much effort but it's not free to slide as it should so I packed it in early. Went inside to the warmth of the fire and placed an order for some 0.3mm sheet and several short rods of various diameters. I should clarify that whilst I'm buying this stuff for this project, it's also workshop stock for my multitude of other retirement projects (when I finally get to them). I plan to make a new seal out of the same stuff but I'm thinking I need some other material in the centre of it to absorb the shock as I don't think the Teflon will handle it for long. The factory seal is pretty bad so I definitely need to replace it with something.
	Daystate Red Wolf .22 FX Dreamline .22 Diana Outlaw .22 AA S410 .22 HW98 .177 HW30 .177 Diana 340 E-Tec .177 FWB Sport 124 .177 Gamo 900 .22 Baikal IJ-22 .177 Crosman 2240 Custom .22 Brocock GP .22

J-S Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 20 Oct 2014 Location: Auckland Status: Offline Posts: 484	Post Options Post Reply Quote J-S Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Sep 2023 at 6:11am
	Looking good. 600ish fps is probably a good velocity to use an o ring as piston seal - make a small piston head from the polymer to secure to the front with a groove for an o ring to fit snug but not too firm inside the compression tube. Also could make some buttons out of the same material to add to the back of the piston then it should be very smooth. PTFE sleeve could be omited if you use a well fitting tophat inside the piston/spring to keep the spring firm and a firm fitting rear guide.
	J S Airguns Air Arms TX200('s) Theoben Sirocco HW77 FWB 300s Webley Patriot One or two others... Current projects: Too many..

KiwiTR6 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 04 Nov 2022 Location: Stratford Status: Offline Posts: 382	Post Options Post Reply Quote KiwiTR6 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 03 Sep 2023 at 4:14pm
	I was considering using an O-0ring but now that I have the PTFE I'll try that first and see how it goes. Same with the sleeve, it's reasonably easy to set up vs buttons although that may change if the thinner sheet still doesn't allow the spring to move as freely as I want. If that's the case then I'll make a new top hat and install some buttons.
	Daystate Red Wolf .22 FX Dreamline .22 Diana Outlaw .22 AA S410 .22 HW98 .177 HW30 .177 Diana 340 E-Tec .177 FWB Sport 124 .177 Gamo 900 .22 Baikal IJ-22 .177 Crosman 2240 Custom .22 Brocock GP .22

RangerPete Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 19 Apr 2023 Location: Cambridge. Status: Offline Posts: 1025	Post Options Post Reply Quote RangerPete Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 04 Sep 2023 at 7:55am
	Excuse my ignorance, but what is a top hat (I’m guessing it’s not something that goes on your head), and what does it do?
	Walk quietly, but carry a big stick.

KiwiTR6 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 04 Nov 2022 Location: Stratford Status: Offline Posts: 382	Post Options Post Reply Quote KiwiTR6 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 04 Sep 2023 at 9:20am
	Thanks jwabfrog and apologies guys, I've removed this incorrect piece of info to save any future confusion Edited by KiwiTR6 - 04 Sep 2023 at 12:55pm
	Daystate Red Wolf .22 FX Dreamline .22 Diana Outlaw .22 AA S410 .22 HW98 .177 HW30 .177 Diana 340 E-Tec .177 FWB Sport 124 .177 Gamo 900 .22 Baikal IJ-22 .177 Crosman 2240 Custom .22 Brocock GP .22

jwabfrog Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 13 Nov 2021 Location: Thames Status: Offline Posts: 159	Post Options Post Reply Quote jwabfrog Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 04 Sep 2023 at 9:45am
	Hi Kiwi, I think that's referred to as the main guide. The top hat sits on the opposite end of the spring that sits inside the piston. Have a look at the tinbum tuning kits and install videos and this will explain in further detail.

RangerPete Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 19 Apr 2023 Location: Cambridge. Status: Offline Posts: 1025	Post Options Post Reply Quote RangerPete Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 04 Sep 2023 at 10:07am
	Bastards!!!
	Walk quietly, but carry a big stick.

Billbobnz Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 14 Jun 2020 Location: Ashburton Status: Offline Posts: 918	Post Options Post Reply Quote Billbobnz Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 04 Sep 2023 at 10:56am
	Buggers!! Righto had the weekend off doing family stuff after deer hunting on Friday. I'm back into my rebuild this week. I had been wondering about an O ring seal too. And will be doing a little after hours at work with the lathe

Billbobnz Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 14 Jun 2020 Location: Ashburton Status: Offline Posts: 918	Post Options Post Reply Quote Billbobnz Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 04 Sep 2023 at 10:59am
	Talking of top hats, inside the piston with the Rod thing that goes back to the trigger, could be an area to make something to centralise the spring around like what a top hat does

Pauly5 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Forum Moderator Joined: 11 Mar 2013 Location: Titahi Bay Status: Offline Posts: 1663	Post Options Post Reply Quote Pauly5 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 04 Sep 2023 at 11:03am
	Generally a top hat and spring guide will do the job supporting the spring. The key is making all the tollerances good and centralizing the piston.

KiwiTR6 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 04 Nov 2022 Location: Stratford Status: Offline Posts: 382	Post Options Post Reply Quote KiwiTR6 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05 Sep 2023 at 4:47am
	OK, I think this could be the reason why I wasn't able to achieve any sort of grouping with the Tasco scope mounted in the grooves on the cylinder. The breech seal is made of some fairly stiff plastic material (with felt washers behind) and as you can see from the photos is significantly tapered. I'm pretty sure the widest part at the top doesn't fully compress meaning the angle of the barrel can vary depending on how much pressure is applied by the user when it's closed. I'll be replacing this with an inner plastic spacer ring and an O-ring (if I can find something suitable) so that the breech closes with full metal to metal contact.
	Daystate Red Wolf .22 FX Dreamline .22 Diana Outlaw .22 AA S410 .22 HW98 .177 HW30 .177 Diana 340 E-Tec .177 FWB Sport 124 .177 Gamo 900 .22 Baikal IJ-22 .177 Crosman 2240 Custom .22 Brocock GP .22

Pauly5 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Forum Moderator Joined: 11 Mar 2013 Location: Titahi Bay Status: Offline Posts: 1663	Post Options Post Reply Quote Pauly5 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05 Sep 2023 at 5:22am
	Interesting, so do you think a wedge shaped spacer ring will help, or a softer pliable seal?

Pauly5 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Forum Moderator Joined: 11 Mar 2013 Location: Titahi Bay Status: Offline Posts: 1663	Post Options Post Reply Quote Pauly5 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05 Sep 2023 at 6:05am
	I took mine apart last night, finally. Smoothed factory edges, spring ends, trigger sears. Put piston in lathe and gave it a quick polish, and interestingly it wasn't horrifically out of concentricity. I put the spare HW seal I had on too. There was a gritty feel to everything, so I cleaned it down and applied Moly grease to touching parts. The gun was basically dry anyway and what they used was quite thin and would have ended up in the compression tube eventually. I really like KiwiTr6 trigger mod, but don't know how to braze so will work my way around that, but I will put shims in to hold the trigger central in the rear block. I'll put it back tonight and see how it feels as it is for now. The seal may not be quite right, but will possibly look to do an O ring seal on the piston end.

KiwiTR6 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 04 Nov 2022 Location: Stratford Status: Offline Posts: 382	Post Options Post Reply Quote KiwiTR6 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05 Sep 2023 at 6:42am
	Paul, I'm wanting metal to metal contact at the breech with a fully compressed nitrile or butyl O-ring. I'm not sure if this is the correct thing to be doing but I'll give it a go. My piston isn't terribly concentric and I compressed and tack welded the top joint to get it a bit closer to round. I'm going to button it anyway (I've figured out how to do this without wasting too much of my 30mm PTFE rod) which will overcome this. For the trigger I silver-soldered the part on. Not a lot of heat required, just gentle application of a propane torch to the area, with tiny pieces of the solder strategically placed and some flux. I filed the black coating off the trigger and used a long screw to hold the brass piece in place with Blu-tack which surprisingly didn't liquefy with the heat. Another issue I want to address is end of the slot where the cocking lever engages with the piston. I started to feel some metal to metal contact when cocking the gun after the first set of mods and decided to pull it back down to check. No damage to the cylinder but the soft steel of the piston had pushed out in two places where the lever presses against it. I've cleaned that off and squared the hole to better match the lever end and I have some Kasenit (direct copy apparently) case hardening powder on its way from Croatia via Ebay. I'll use that on both items to hopefully correct that issue. Kasenit doesn't appear to be available any longer and the Cherry Red alternative that you can buy locally is ridiculously expensive. If anyone wants the link please say so. Edited by KiwiTR6 - 05 Sep 2023 at 6:50am
	Daystate Red Wolf .22 FX Dreamline .22 Diana Outlaw .22 AA S410 .22 HW98 .177 HW30 .177 Diana 340 E-Tec .177 FWB Sport 124 .177 Gamo 900 .22 Baikal IJ-22 .177 Crosman 2240 Custom .22 Brocock GP .22