Lobbying for change

Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic

 Yeah that law is 55 years old.
 Things have changed a lot in that time.
 Espially the power output of springer units.
 Hell it's 1 year younger than I am, and the air rifles I played with growing up don't even compare for power.
 Hmmm except a double spring Chinese gun that was made for training troops in kick back. Actual gun was made shoody but it certainly had power. 

Author	Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic
kruzaroad Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 02 Jul 2022 Location: Hastings 4 now Status: Offline Posts: 2284	Post Options Post Reply Quote kruzaroad Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Lobbying for change Posted: 16 Jul 2024 at 3:48pm
	Yeah that law is 55 years old. Things have changed a lot in that time. Espially the power output of springer units. Hell it's 1 year younger than I am, and the air rifles I played with growing up don't even compare for power. Hmmm except a double spring Chinese gun that was made for training troops in kick back. Actual gun was made shoody but it certainly had power.

nunga Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List Forum Moderator Joined: 08 Mar 2013 Location: Pukekohe Status: Offline Posts: 1012	Post Options Post Reply Quote nunga Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Jul 2024 at 3:25pm
	I dont buy into the 10pfe either. heck, my TX200 which is made in the UK is 18FFE off the shelf. i had to get a low power kit for it. The .30 Hatsan puts out 30 FPE off the shelf.
	2nd place HP springer - WFTF World Championships 2014

RangerPete Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 18 Apr 2023 Location: Cambridge. Status: Offline Posts: 884	Post Options Post Reply Quote RangerPete Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 Jul 2024 at 7:28pm
	Kruza, I dont buy that story about 12FPE limit being imposed on UK residents to limit imports because local made ones could only produce 10FPE... Nonsence. (I know its not your theory, just saying I dont buy it). Some of the best air rifle manufacturers in the world are based in the UK and have been making air rifles for decades. BSA made millions of fire arms that fought through (and won) both world wars, you dont think they could produce an air rifle stronger then 10FPE??? A 100% more likely origin of the 12FPE law was to limit air rifle power for "the safety of the general population" but to still allow the ethical hunting of small game. And having had extensive use of 12FPE air rifles for many many years there is no argument that they are perfectly sufficient for the hunting of small game. Edited by RangerPete - 12 Jul 2024 at 7:31pm
	Walk quietly, but carry a big stick.

RangerPete Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 18 Apr 2023 Location: Cambridge. Status: Offline Posts: 884	Post Options Post Reply Quote RangerPete Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 Jul 2024 at 7:12pm
	Interesting to note the legislation as it stands does not apply to multi pump guns (example my Sharp Innova) which does not require a FAL but can get up to 18-20 fpe. [/QUOTE] Anyone know what the big Hatsan .30cal break barrel can produce? I dont know my self, but I'm sure it must be around 30FPE... no licence required for that, or for any other springer, they all licence free. So anyone who is too lazy to apply for a firearms licence and pass a simple MULTIPLE CHOICE test, really cant complain and say they cant do pest control because of a lack of equipment.
	Walk quietly, but carry a big stick.

kruzaroad Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 02 Jul 2022 Location: Hastings 4 now Status: Offline Posts: 2284	Post Options Post Reply Quote kruzaroad Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 Jul 2024 at 1:15pm
	Oh it's believed the 12fpe law came, Englands air guns weren't able to compete with the foreign companies, espially in power so put a 12fpe limit on, affecting how many imports could get to market. At that stage English air rifles were about 10fpe, so 12 gave them a bit of play room. There is another theory that it was picked on ability for small game verses ability to harm people aswell

kruzaroad Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 02 Jul 2022 Location: Hastings 4 now Status: Offline Posts: 2284	Post Options Post Reply Quote kruzaroad Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 Jul 2024 at 1:06pm
	This site recons 58fpe is fatal less if hit in vital. Shows few videos of differnt objects being shot with air rifle. Turns out at 12fpe England is by no measure the lowest fpe unlicenced. https://airguntactical.com/pages/airguns-fpe-lethality-chart#:~:text=According%20to%20%E2%80%9CHomicide%20Using%20an,pellets%20strike%20in%20key%20positions. Edited by kruzaroad - 12 Jul 2024 at 1:06pm

Deano Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Joined: 10 Jan 2024 Location: Tasman Status: Offline Posts: 21	Post Options Post Reply Quote Deano Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 Jul 2024 at 8:57am
	My 0.02c ... I'm not sure where 12 ft/lb comes from (apart from the UK), we wouldn't need to follow that - especially as we have a more legitimate reason for needing higher fpe for pest control. Personally I would allow PCP's up to say 30 ft/lb, and leave the legislation alone for spring operated guns as they tend to be self-limiting for mechanical reasons (I don't think you're gonna get a 50 fpe springer). Interesting to note the legislation as it stands does not apply to multi pump guns (example my Sharp Innova) which does not require a FAL but can get up to 18-20 fpe.

Pauly5 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Forum Moderator Joined: 10 Mar 2013 Location: Titahi Bay Status: Offline Posts: 1415	Post Options Post Reply Quote Pauly5 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 Jul 2024 at 6:17pm
	A thought. If airguns are restricted by power, how does that effect archery and slingshots. Am i right in saying that there is no restriction on them? Would lobbying for change cause these to be looked at too? In my industry, changes have bought unwanted attention from intellectuals sitting behind screens to hail down restrictive registration changes on products we use without consulting the industry itself.

kruzaroad Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 02 Jul 2022 Location: Hastings 4 now Status: Offline Posts: 2284	Post Options Post Reply Quote kruzaroad Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 Jul 2024 at 12:29pm
	Yeah I just go by 5fpe at target min, with head shot. Bump that up for a possum. Bump that up for body shot at distance. Check out the fpe over distance graph, in gun chair and move to suit or don't shoot. Saves a lot math.

Reissue Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Joined: 06 Jul 2024 Location: Hawkes Bay Status: Offline Posts: 3	Post Options Post Reply Quote Reissue Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 Jul 2024 at 7:27am
	Good post here is my basic understanding: Energy vs. Momentum and Sectional Density: Energy (ft-lbs or Joules): Measures the capacity to do work. In ballistics, it gives an idea of potential damage, but it does not directly translate to penetration or lethality. Momentum (kg·m/s): Product of mass and velocity. Higher momentum means the projectile can maintain its velocity longer when encountering resistance, aiding penetration. Sectional Density: Ratio of mass to cross-sectional area. Higher sectional density means a projectile can penetrate deeper as it concentrates more force on a smaller area. Penetration Dynamics: High Energy, Low Mass (e.g., .22 pellet): These projectiles travel fast but may fragment or lose energy quickly upon impact, reducing penetration. Lower Energy, High Mass (e.g., arrow): These projectiles move slower but maintain momentum better, allowing deeper penetration due to their higher sectional density and sustained force application.