RWS Super Dome

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   Just had one of those "WOW" moments....

Been doing some chronograph work today with my AirArms S510 .25cal.
Been testing different pellet weights at different power levels. Looking for consistency in velocity, because that should translate into tight groups right? Well thats my theory any way.

I've also had another theory thats been growing in the back of my head for a while now, so I was also testing that today, and that theory is that at lower power levels, "lighter for caliber" pellets work better, and at higher power levels, "heavier for caliber" pellets work better.
I'm not talking about velocity here, we all know that pellets are happiest around the 850fps mark, but not every rifle can push a pellet that fast, and not every shooter or situation requires that much speed and the associated energy that comes with it.
What I'm talking about is consistency in performance.
It doesn't matter if your first shot (power level) is only 218fps, what matters is will the next 4 shots be with in a few fps of the first shot? If they are then you have consistency and you should be well on your way to a tight group.

This S510 has 5 power levels (transfer port settings), and I have chosen to work with 3 of them.
Power level 1 - ridiculously low, about 2FPE.
Power level 2 - nice usable power for urban pesting, about 15 or 16FPE.
and power level 5 - huge power for big open spaces, 40FPE.

Anyone who knows me knows I am a huge fan of JSB exacts, they are very hard to beat for accuracy at long distances, and for me thats all that counts. So up to now I have been using the standard JSB Exact 25.4gr "standard for caliber" weight pellet for all of the different power settings, and they have performed reasonably well across all of them.
But there is always room for improvement, hence my never ending testing.

At the lowest power setting I wanted to try a "light for caliber" pellet and I found a 20gr H&N FTT, 20% lighter then the 25.4gr Exact. And yes, over the chrono it performed better (more consistent velocitys, less extreame spread and lower standard deviation) then the heavier Exacts, so I'll be changing to those for power level 1 (Sparrow power...      )

Somewhere in one of the many threads on this forum, we were talking about measuring head sizes and someone spent hours measuring pellets and they said they were seriously impressed with the consistency of RWS super domes, and that stuck in my head. So when I saw some .25cal Super Domes on trade me I bought two tins, and today was the first time I've tried at them.

They are 31grainers, so quite a bit heavier then the 25.4gr exacts, so of course I tested them side by side against the exacts on power level 5, full power. And yes, at full power the heavier RWS's were more consistent than the Exacts. Heavier, yes, slower, of course, but the ES and the SD were both HALF of the Exacts.
And if I take out one of the 5 shots and just look at a 4 shot string, they had an ES of 5fps and a SD of 2!!!    

After that I had finished all my testing and was about to pack up when I thought, what the hell, everything is already set up and its all right here, let me quickly test the RWS against the Exacts at power level 2 as well (16FPE)...
And thats when I had my little "Wow..." moment.
Again heavier and slower, and carrying slightly more FPE, but over 5 shots they gave an extreme spread of 5fps and a standard deviation of 1.4  
wow...
Hoping to get to my 100m shooting range in the next few days to continue testing. Will keep you posted.

I might have to try find some in .177 and .22 now aswell...   

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RangerPete Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 18 Apr 2023 Location: Cambridge. Status: Offline Posts: 863	Post Options Post Reply Quote RangerPete Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: RWS Super Dome Posted: 17 May 2024 at 3:21pm
	Just had one of those "WOW" moments.... Been doing some chronograph work today with my AirArms S510 .25cal. Been testing different pellet weights at different power levels. Looking for consistency in velocity, because that should translate into tight groups right? Well thats my theory any way. I've also had another theory thats been growing in the back of my head for a while now, so I was also testing that today, and that theory is that at lower power levels, "lighter for caliber" pellets work better, and at higher power levels, "heavier for caliber" pellets work better. I'm not talking about velocity here, we all know that pellets are happiest around the 850fps mark, but not every rifle can push a pellet that fast, and not every shooter or situation requires that much speed and the associated energy that comes with it. What I'm talking about is consistency in performance. It doesn't matter if your first shot (power level) is only 218fps, what matters is will the next 4 shots be with in a few fps of the first shot? If they are then you have consistency and you should be well on your way to a tight group. This S510 has 5 power levels (transfer port settings), and I have chosen to work with 3 of them. Power level 1 - ridiculously low, about 2FPE. Power level 2 - nice usable power for urban pesting, about 15 or 16FPE. and power level 5 - huge power for big open spaces, 40FPE. Anyone who knows me knows I am a huge fan of JSB exacts, they are very hard to beat for accuracy at long distances, and for me thats all that counts. So up to now I have been using the standard JSB Exact 25.4gr "standard for caliber" weight pellet for all of the different power settings, and they have performed reasonably well across all of them. But there is always room for improvement, hence my never ending testing. At the lowest power setting I wanted to try a "light for caliber" pellet and I found a 20gr H&N FTT, 20% lighter then the 25.4gr Exact. And yes, over the chrono it performed better (more consistent velocitys, less extreame spread and lower standard deviation) then the heavier Exacts, so I'll be changing to those for power level 1 (Sparrow power... ) Somewhere in one of the many threads on this forum, we were talking about measuring head sizes and someone spent hours measuring pellets and they said they were seriously impressed with the consistency of RWS super domes, and that stuck in my head. So when I saw some .25cal Super Domes on trade me I bought two tins, and today was the first time I've tried at them. They are 31grainers, so quite a bit heavier then the 25.4gr exacts, so of course I tested them side by side against the exacts on power level 5, full power. And yes, at full power the heavier RWS's were more consistent than the Exacts. Heavier, yes, slower, of course, but the ES and the SD were both HALF of the Exacts. And if I take out one of the 5 shots and just look at a 4 shot string, they had an ES of 5fps and a SD of 2!!! After that I had finished all my testing and was about to pack up when I thought, what the hell, everything is already set up and its all right here, let me quickly test the RWS against the Exacts at power level 2 as well (16FPE)... And thats when I had my little "Wow..." moment. Again heavier and slower, and carrying slightly more FPE, but over 5 shots they gave an extreme spread of 5fps and a standard deviation of 1.4 wow... Hoping to get to my 100m shooting range in the next few days to continue testing. Will keep you posted. I might have to try find some in .177 and .22 now aswell...
	Walk quietly, but carry a big stick.

RangerPete Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 18 Apr 2023 Location: Cambridge. Status: Offline Posts: 863	Post Options Post Reply Quote RangerPete Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 17 May 2024 at 3:22pm

	Walk quietly, but carry a big stick.

kruzaroad Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 02 Jul 2022 Location: Hastings 4 now Status: Offline Posts: 2226	Post Options Post Reply Quote kruzaroad Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 17 May 2024 at 4:23pm
	What a coincidence. I was just in a shop in Ashburton and they have the same in 177. Let me know if can't find any up there and I'll send you the shop name. Been to a few shops enroute looking for AA and have been rather amused at the responce when I've told them thier pellet selection is crap and air rifles are hell fussy and named better brands that would good to have as well. One looked rather suprised when I told her I wouldn't touch gamo as they in general are crap. Yet they had rws. Lol. Shame didn't have any in 22,i would have brought a tin to try.

mercs Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 24 Apr 2020 Location: Stratford Status: Offline Posts: 262	Post Options Post Reply Quote mercs Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 17 May 2024 at 8:51pm
	RWS Super Field are a distance pellet of choice but not always available. Superdome in .22 are a touch lighter and easier to find. Superpoint no better or worse than other pointed brands. Pro-line wad cutters are great for nice clean targets holes. I find them very clean, shiny and a touch harder than many other brands and they will spark when plinking. Prices have definitely moved up but RWS do appear to make lower cost versions branded as Geco.

KiwiTR6 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 03 Nov 2022 Location: Stratford Status: Offline Posts: 268	Post Options Post Reply Quote KiwiTR6 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 May 2024 at 2:34pm
	My 2 cents worth... Pete, I was the one who did the measurements and found that the RWS were very consistent is size vs the JSBs. However, just like that shiny new Stoeger RX20 TAC and several other guns I purchased a while back, I've found that they haven't produced the results that I was expecting or hoping for - yet logic suggests they should be as good as anything else out there (shiny with no flash, consistent sizing and made in Germany). So, my current thinking is that it's not the cleanness of the forging or the consistency of size that's important (within reason), it's the actual shape of the pellet itself and I think both the JSB and AA pellets confirm this view. The JSBs have been quite inconsistent in sizing recently, but regardless of that they still shoot very well. A lot of people think the AA pellets are the same as the equivalent JSB because JSB manufactures them. But that's not the case at all. A little time spent with a pair of calipers will show that they are all different in overall length, skirt length and construction, neck diameter, and probably head shape (not so easy to confirm). Therefore, I believe that it's the shape of the pellet that matters most and arguably AA has probably done the best job in this regards. It's just a pity that it's so hard to get hold of them here!
	FX Wildcat MK111 BT Sniper .25 FX Dreamline Classic .22 Diana Outlaw .22 Cometa Fenix 400 .177 Weihrauch HW50 .177 Crosman 2240 PCP Custom .22 Crosman 2250 PCP Custom .22

kruzaroad Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 02 Jul 2022 Location: Hastings 4 now Status: Offline Posts: 2226	Post Options Post Reply Quote kruzaroad Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 May 2024 at 8:51am
	I'm personally of the view, after pellets ive weighed and sized, then watching videos of people doing the same thing with same brands and pellet types in England, that we don't get the same quality pellets in nz. The consistency seems much higher there for tins of AA, jbs etc. That I'm assuming it is due what would be essentially a very small market in comparison to overseas. The other thing I've noticed when checking pellets is quite often I'll get patches pellets within the tins that are out of spec. Like they add a few from the dyes (dies? However it's spelt) that are maybe starting to wear slightly and distribution in small numbers through the tins is a way of getting more use out of dye before it has to be replaced. This a conclusion I've come to and are not claiming it is fact. I should get a few tins sent from England to compare but probly won't. I wrote to AA after a particually bad batch of AA heavy that were all over the place and said they may want to check the batch number quality control. Sent them pic of all the pellets sorted into head size and weight as done by vernier and scale. The responce? They had never heard of people measuring the head size before, just the weight and a vernier wasnt an acurate way to measure head size. Still they would keep an eye out for more complaints on that batch number. That says it all really. Verniers are one of the tools you use for checking dies for tolerance, therefore must be accurate enough for checking pellets( I've made a few dies back in the day for injection molding) There is no way hell that they being a English company making top line guns, used in compition arnt aware of how pellet fussy air gun shooters can be. Especially for target shooting. But dont get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of AA deablos and have used them for both sig in 177 and tx in 22. Will be running some in the weihrauch in the future for testing. But that reply just made me more suspect my conclusion may be right. Edited by kruzaroad - 19 May 2024 at 9:10am

KiwiTR6 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 03 Nov 2022 Location: Stratford Status: Offline Posts: 268	Post Options Post Reply Quote KiwiTR6 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 May 2024 at 1:26pm
	I've watched quite a view videos recently of the fiasco that is the RV industry in the US. It seems that up until 2019 production standards were generally OK, but through and after Covid it's all gone downhill with numerous quality issues, the biggest of which is "frame flex" - or chassis failure. Many people with units that they paid up to US$500,000 for are battling with dealers and manufacturers to have these multiple issues rectified. This all seems to have arisen due to the massive increase in sales when there were restrictions on overseas travel (as we did in my business at the time) and the lack of skilled workers to meet this demand. My suspicion is that the same issue affected our suppliers - you only need to look at the QC issues with FX. I've purchased two in that time and both had manufacturing faults as did those purchased by two other owners that I know of. Once those problems were rectified the guns were great of course. My point is that perhaps we're not having substandard product dumped on us at all, but rather it's just a sign of the times we live in. And despite this, the JSBs still shoot great so hence my thinking re design vs quality.
	FX Wildcat MK111 BT Sniper .25 FX Dreamline Classic .22 Diana Outlaw .22 Cometa Fenix 400 .177 Weihrauch HW50 .177 Crosman 2240 PCP Custom .22 Crosman 2250 PCP Custom .22

RangerPete Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 18 Apr 2023 Location: Cambridge. Status: Offline Posts: 863	Post Options Post Reply Quote RangerPete Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 May 2024 at 5:22pm
	Managed to get the .25 out into some open space today and test out the RWS Super domes… 🙈 I’ll post some pics later this evening. Tested on power level 2 at 20yards, (the super domes at power level 2 were extremely consistant over the chronograph) horrible group at 20y. The JSB’s and the FTT’s both out performed the super domes. Power level 3 at 25y, horrible. The JSB exacts were a one hole group. Power level 5 at 35y, same story, superdomes were horrible and JSB, one hole. Isn’t that so weird! They were super consistent through the chrono, much more consistent then the JSB’s through the chrono, but I guess the proof is in the pudding 😂😂😂 An interesting side note on .25 pellets is that I was doing a similar test (looking for the most accurate pellet) at power level 1, which is about 2.3FPE, depending on pellet weight. I was compairing the JSB exact 25.4gr and the H&N FTT 20gr. At 10y the JSB’s were ok, nothing special but usable. 5 pellets, 2 small separate holes. I then tried the FTT’s at 10yards. First 5 shots were all over the place. 🙈 Next 5 shots were one ragged hole 😳 And the next 5, and the next 5 after that. I guess there is some truth to the “different pellets need to lead in” theory 🤔
	Walk quietly, but carry a big stick.

mercs Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 24 Apr 2020 Location: Stratford Status: Offline Posts: 262	Post Options Post Reply Quote mercs Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 May 2024 at 5:41pm
	Prior test RWS Super Field from Sig Post, never as good with the RWS Super Domes. 50 metre with .22 Sig Sauer ASP20 RWS Superfield pellets 1.03 gramme 5.51mm Scope Tasco 4-9x40AO set to max 9 Rested on bag Max spread 14.4mm Mean radius 6.6mm Edited by mercs - 24 May 2024 at 5:47pm

RangerPete Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 18 Apr 2023 Location: Cambridge. Status: Offline Posts: 863	Post Options Post Reply Quote RangerPete Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 May 2024 at 7:44pm
	That’s a good group at 50m 👍🏻
	Walk quietly, but carry a big stick.