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RangerPete View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04 May 2023 at 10:48pm
Hi Folks,
I’ve been using the JSB Hades for some rabbit control, and although they fly straight and group ok (for a hunting pellet), I’ve been a little disappointed in their terminal performance.

I was hoping they would open up, flatten out and dump all their energy into the target, like a hollow point expanding bullet would, but in reality they just seem to flatten ever so slightly.
I’ve been doing some rabbit control around horses, so have the pcp tuned down to 13.6fpe, shooting a 15,89gr .22cal Hades at about 620fps. I’ve recovered a few pellets and my findings have been as follows:
Most head shots out to about 40m are through and through, I’ve only recovered one pellet from a rabbits head so far. It had expanded from 5.5mm to 6mm.

On a shoulder shot, the pellet penetrated about 4cm, going through the scapula and ending up close to the spine. Fatal shot and the pellet again expanded from 5.5mm to about 6mm. One “petal” broke off.
On another shoulder shot the pellet did not go through the scapula, didnt even penetrate 1cm and was just under the skin, but did break the leg. Not a fatal shot but did expand to about 6mm against the scapula.

With the same pellet, out the same gun but on another power setting giving 930fps and about 31fpe, I shot a possum in the eye and the pellet was recovered down the neck just forward of the shoulder blades. Penetrated about 10cm. It expanded from 5.5mm to 6.5mm. See the attached pictures.

Although they are doing the job, I was really hoping for better deformation and a harder “thump”, giving a better knock over. Maybe a pellet made of softer lead would expand better?
Has anyone else had any experiences with the hades, or with another make and model which gave satisfying results in thumping bunnies?
Walk quietly, but carry a big stick.
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kruzaroad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kruzaroad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2023 at 6:49am
My first comment would be, what was fpe at target.
Muzzle energy is not equal to energy dumped into target down range, and I notice you've provided no distances.
Heres a video that shows expansion fired into bucket of water at differnt fpe at muzzle energy.
https://youtu.be/cAuflxfY7fE
I use jsb out of my 1322 on birds and the odd rabbit and possum. They "smack" harder than any other pellet I've used.
On birds they have been devistating and drop them better than other pellets I've used. Rabbits have been at about 5fpe distance usually and have taken them down but my shot placement could have been better. Possum close range (very close due to low fpe of 1322) were very dead and penitration was fine. I have no complaints about impact performance of jsb.
I have not found hades accurate beyond 20/30m in my rifles. (20m is about 1322 shooting distance)
Rifle pellet choice for the tx200 .22
was AA field deablo 16gr . After 50m heart/lung shots were out as the energy had dropped enough that it wouldn't pass through the shoulder bones if my shot was off causing a shattered leg/shoulder bone, but not penitration into vitals. Head shots could be taken further out.
SIG asp20 .177 is AA heavy. That I use the same distances as tx for guide line. Seems to be working fine.
I find the 177 penitration is better than .22 but shot placement is crucial as they are less forgiving for being slightly off.
I must admit I was bummed out the jsb hades didn't have better accuracy out of my rifles I like it as a small critter round.
I would have thought you would be using a slug in a pcp.
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Myson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Myson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2023 at 7:28am
There's a chap called Gary Wain in the Airgun World magazine who has done extensive tests with all kinds of pellets over the past 2 years - many many good articles by him!

His recent summary of all his findings is that the best all round pellet shape is the standard, common round-nosed diabolo pellet, especially over distance. Best hitter and most accurate overall.

If I remember correctly, he liked the JSB Hades up to 30 metres - but not so accurate after that?

And his trials with Ballistic Gell proved that the energy transfer (to the prey) was not that much more with the Hades than other shapes...

He had chronographs at the muzzle and two at the target gell (brave man!) to determine energy and velocities at various points in pellet flight.

I recommend you read his articles if you have access to Airgun World - he's a funny chap too, who writes with humour and dedication to the cause of pellet dynamics!

A typical English eccentric who loves his airguns!!! Smile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq7jVyBfFqE
Air Arms S510 US .22
Air Arms S410 .22
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RangerPete View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RangerPete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2023 at 9:02am
Hi Kruza,
Not sure what the fpe at target is, but all shots were around 30m.
If those hades pellets are dropping from 13.6fpe to ….?not enough?.. in only 30m then there is something wrong!
Most head shots were pass throughs, so didn’t get to recover the pellet, but even with out looking at the pellet I can tell from the exit wound there was little to no expansion. I.e. has enough energy to exit but dosent expand much 🤔
The one pellet I did recover from a head shot was under the far side skin (nearly exited) and had expanded from 5.5mm to 6mm.

The high powered 31fpe shot on the possum was at about 15m. That should have still been carrying heaps of energy. It penetrated through the eye, exited the skull, traveled down through the neck and stopped just in front of the shoulder blades. Clearly had lots of power, good penetration, but only expanded to 6.5mm, not much at all.
This raises the question of “how much energy is needed to expand a Hades?”.

With regards to slugs, yes their terminal performance can be amazing, but I think they are usually made from softer lead, and have very deep “hollow point” cavity’s which helps their expansion. The also seem to like going fast, very fast, like 950fps and upwards! Unfortunately many PCP’s can’t push a heavy projectile at those speeds unless they are very “tunable”. They also need a faster barrel twist rate to stabilize them, so I’m told.
Their required speed and resulting energy with the added noise from the high powered gun probably makes them less suited to working in between horses.

I think the answer is a really soft pellet, with a deep hollow point that will expand rapidly at low velocity’s… hummm 🤔
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RangerPete View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RangerPete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2023 at 9:04am
Thanks Myson,
I find pellet testing and performance very interesting.
I’ll see if I can find some of his articals.
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kruzaroad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kruzaroad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2023 at 9:48am
Try hard air magazine too.
Do do something called the ham test for various pellets.
They are pretty comprehensive and also go into how dirty the pellets are,most common weight/head size, penitration, expasion etc.
Here is the hades review
https://hardairmagazine.com/reviews/jsb-hades-15-89-grain-22-caliber-pellet-test-review/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RangerPete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2023 at 8:38am
Hi Kruza,
Interesting article/review, thanks 👍🏻
The don’t give the exact velocity of their test rifle, all they say is it’s a “1000 fps” break barrel, but the expansion they got in a block of soap is similar to what I got at 31fpe in a possum.
The picture they show of a pellet looking like a M&M is the kind of performance I’m looking for 👍🏻😂
But they needed a 60fpe rifle to get that performance 😳 I don’t have one of those
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RangerPete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2023 at 8:44am
Just did some calculations and u would need to push a 15.89gr pellet at 1310fps to generate 60fps!!!
Wow.
If u got a gun that can do that, it’s defiantly time to switch to slugs! Heavy ones!
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kruzaroad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kruzaroad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2023 at 9:34am
They seem to be impressed with the expansion rate of the hades though thier results arnt anything significantly differnt to yours. So maybe your hope of finding a exceptionally well expanding pellet may not actually be something that will be found in a pellet.
That 60fpe at 10m seemed a bit of a. Waste of time to me. As you say you'd think they would go slug. I imagine a pellet would pass clean through small game at that sort of distance. Goat might be a differnt story.
The other thing I think helps the hades is with its knock down on birds (which is my primary use for them) is that when the pellet hits its rotating and that pellet head becomes a cutter due to its shape.
I also read and interesting artical where a guy was using a deablo pellet on game and recording the results.
He had markedly better one shot kills dropping his pcp power level to where the pellet wouldn't pass through the animal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RangerPete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2023 at 9:53am
Kruza, What caliber are you using for your bird control with the hades pellets?
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