<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" ?>
<?xml-stylesheet type="text/xsl" href="RSS_xslt_style.asp" version="1.0" ?>
<rss version="2.0" xmlns:WebWizForums="http://syndication.webwiz.co.uk/rss_namespace/">
 <channel>
  <title>Kiwi Airgunners Forum : Air gun accuracy</title>
  <link>www.kiwiairgunners.co.nz/</link>
  <description>This is an XML content feed of; Kiwi Airgunners Forum : Pauly's Technical Area : Air gun accuracy</description>
  <copyright>Copyright (c) 2006-2012 Web Wiz Forums - All Rights Reserved.</copyright>
  <pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2026 06:55:36 +0000</pubDate>
  <lastBuildDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2014 08:28:42 +0000</lastBuildDate>
  <docs>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss</docs>
  <generator>Web Wiz Forums 10.14</generator>
  <ttl>360</ttl>
  <WebWizForums:feedURL>www.kiwiairgunners.co.nz/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=153</WebWizForums:feedURL>
  <image>
   <title>Kiwi Airgunners Forum</title>
   <url>www.kiwiairgunners.co.nz/forum_images/logo.jpg</url>
   <link>www.kiwiairgunners.co.nz/</link>
  </image>
  <item>
   <title>Air gun accuracy :   Shaqa wrote:Shooting tight...</title>
   <link>www.kiwiairgunners.co.nz/forum_posts.asp?TID=153&amp;PID=998#998</link>
   <description>
    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="www.kiwiairgunners.co.nz/member_profile.asp?PF=7">(pink)MIST</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 153<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> 22&nbsp;Aug&nbsp;2014 at 8:28am<br /><br /> <table width="99%"><tr><td class="BBquote"><img src="forum_images/quote_box.png" title="Originally posted by Shaqa" alt="Originally posted by Shaqa" style="vertical-align: text-bottom;" /> <strong>Shaqa wrote:</strong><br /><br />Shooting tight groups does not necessarily imply high accuracy.<br />Just ask a target shooter......</td></tr></table> <br /><br />I'll second that <br />Groups forming "accuracy" have their place, but precision is the combined rifle and shooter, and the ability to put one round on target , first time, every time .<br />IMO precision goes a lot beyond just the capabilities of the rifle itself, as it involves the operators ability, and knowledge/experience judging the effects of all the immeadiately atmospheric conditions.<br /><br />No doubt there'll be more than my own interpretation of "precision"<br />But there it is for my 2c<br /><br />:)<br />]]>
   </description>
   <pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2014 08:28:42 +0000</pubDate>
   <guid isPermaLink="true">www.kiwiairgunners.co.nz/forum_posts.asp?TID=153&amp;PID=998#998</guid>
  </item> 
  <item>
   <title>Air gun accuracy : yea mate i know :) sorry i didnt...</title>
   <link>www.kiwiairgunners.co.nz/forum_posts.asp?TID=153&amp;PID=997#997</link>
   <description>
    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="www.kiwiairgunners.co.nz/member_profile.asp?PF=3">nunga</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 153<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> 22&nbsp;Aug&nbsp;2014 at 5:59am<br /><br />yea mate i know :) sorry i didnt mean to take the piss, I just looked at it and couldnt help my self.<br>]]>
   </description>
   <pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2014 05:59:18 +0000</pubDate>
   <guid isPermaLink="true">www.kiwiairgunners.co.nz/forum_posts.asp?TID=153&amp;PID=997#997</guid>
  </item> 
  <item>
   <title>Air gun accuracy : Just saying that accuracy is not...</title>
   <link>www.kiwiairgunners.co.nz/forum_posts.asp?TID=153&amp;PID=996#996</link>
   <description>
    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="www.kiwiairgunners.co.nz/member_profile.asp?PF=381">Shaqa</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 153<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> 22&nbsp;Aug&nbsp;2014 at 5:50am<br /><br />Just saying that accuracy is not precision (and vica versa). Shooting tight groups does not necessarily imply high accuracy.<br />Just ask a target shooter......]]>
   </description>
   <pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2014 05:50:38 +0000</pubDate>
   <guid isPermaLink="true">www.kiwiairgunners.co.nz/forum_posts.asp?TID=153&amp;PID=996#996</guid>
  </item> 
  <item>
   <title>Air gun accuracy : Shouldnt the POI be divided by...</title>
   <link>www.kiwiairgunners.co.nz/forum_posts.asp?TID=153&amp;PID=995#995</link>
   <description>
    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="www.kiwiairgunners.co.nz/member_profile.asp?PF=3">nunga</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 153<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> 22&nbsp;Aug&nbsp;2014 at 5:45am<br /><br />Shouldnt the POI be divided by the POA then multiplied by the Precision which has the value of "E" ?<br><br>or POI / POA* E = PIE :) Georgie Pie :) hmmm pie.....<br><br>By the way Part two of the first topic will come tonight. just a bit busy to post it at the moment.<br><span style="font-size:10px"><br /><br />Edited by Nunga - 22&nbsp;Aug&nbsp;2014 at 11:25am</span>]]>
   </description>
   <pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2014 05:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
   <guid isPermaLink="true">www.kiwiairgunners.co.nz/forum_posts.asp?TID=153&amp;PID=995#995</guid>
  </item> 
  <item>
   <title>Air gun accuracy : Not withstanding what Nunga has...</title>
   <link>www.kiwiairgunners.co.nz/forum_posts.asp?TID=153&amp;PID=994#994</link>
   <description>
    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="www.kiwiairgunners.co.nz/member_profile.asp?PF=381">Shaqa</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 153<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> 22&nbsp;Aug&nbsp;2014 at 4:51am<br /><br />Not withstanding what Nunga has posted.<br />There is also a difference between accuracy and precision.<br />Simply put, accuracy is where the mean of a number of POI's is at the POA. <br />Precision is the size of the group formed from a number of shots. i.e. the smaller the group, the higher the precision.<br /><br />Therefore, if there is a small group formed from a number of POI's and the mean of those POI's is at the POA then this could be described as high precision and higer accuracy.<br />Conversely, a large group formed from a number of POI's where the mean of those POI's is not near the POA would be considered low precision and low accuracy.<br />mtcw]]>
   </description>
   <pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2014 04:51:01 +0000</pubDate>
   <guid isPermaLink="true">www.kiwiairgunners.co.nz/forum_posts.asp?TID=153&amp;PID=994#994</guid>
  </item> 
  <item>
   <title>Air gun accuracy :  Things have been very dead around...</title>
   <link>www.kiwiairgunners.co.nz/forum_posts.asp?TID=153&amp;PID=993#993</link>
   <description>
    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="www.kiwiairgunners.co.nz/member_profile.asp?PF=3">nunga</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 153<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> 21&nbsp;Aug&nbsp;2014 at 3:53pm<br /><br /><p>Things have been very dead around here lately so here is some food for thought about air rifle accuracy. I hope this information will be useful for you if you are wondering why and how your rifle doesn't shoot how you expect it to and some possible reasons why.</p><p><br></p><p>Im going to start with the basics of accuracy and then get a bit more technical with pellet types and barrel twist rates and so forth.&nbsp;</p><p><br></p><p>Part 1<br></p><p>When we think of accuracy in relation to our air rifles we think of punching several tiny little nice tight 5 or 10 shot groups on paper at some fairly good distances. But that is not really what accuracy is. Accuracy in its simplest sense, is nothing more thanconsistency. the more consistence, the more accurate you will be. <br></p><p>To put it as simple as possible. Aair rifle accuracy is the ability for our rifle to launch a pellet at lets say for arguments sake through our PCP at 850 FPS andhave it arrive at our target at say 650 FPS one would think that if every shot we took did exactly thatour pellet would be capable of shooting through the same hole shot after shot after shot but how often does this happen?. A lot of shooters assume if every pellet leaves the muzzle atexactly the same velocity every pellet will hit the target at the same terminal velocity but it really doesn't work like that. If it did, wewould have absolute accuracy. Sure, we get small groups at longranges; but why and what are the real reasons for this? Better yet what causes a seemly perfect pellet to be the one nasty flier in the group? Why do all thepellets cluster together, on the target; but, one has to always ruin things? <br></p><p>Im sure most of you out there have all heard this next story, or we have experienced it first hand. We have two guns that were made by the same gun maker. They are the exactsame make and model, but one will shoot tiny groups with pellet X; while, the other shoots the same pellet all over the place. Why does this happen?. To fully understand this we must first understand what really happens to our pellet between the time we put it in the barrel and it hits thetarget. To understand accuracy, we must understand both internal and external ballistics.</p><p>We all know that high powered rifles are accurate at very long ranges and it is nothing for the best of them to shoot tiny groups at up and over 300+ meters. Then why does our airgun accuracy fall off at such close ranges? first have a look at 10 meter target guns and then field target guns. Accuracy for ten meter guns and Field Target range guns are notquite the same thing. First off ten meter guns shoot better at rather low velocities and shoot quite well or even more accurately with flatnosed wad cutter type pellets. These guns are great at what they do; but, as the range increases so does the need for power.</p><p>The ten meter match guns shoot what are probably the best made pellets you can get but. You will never see anyone winning a field targetmatch with those pellets. The reason has to do with ballistics, or the ballistic coefficient of the pellet. The ballistic coefficient is thepellet's ability to maintain a higher velocity down range. Simply put, the higher the ballistic coefficient of the pellet, the further it willshoot accurately.</p><p>While the reason that high powered powder burner firearms can shoot accurately for such long ranges is partly do to the real high speed of the bullet but there is more to itthan that. If you were to look at the design of a high powered rifle bullet you would see that there is a great deal of difference between its design, andthat of our airgun pellet. a simple google search will show you.</p><p><br></p><p align="left">If you take another look at a high power rifle bullet tells us that it is very aerodynamic but&nbsp; take a even closer look at the design. The fact of thematter is that the back end of the bullet is much heavier than the sharp pointed front end of the bullet. If you were to shoot this bullet outof a smooth bore barrel it would be less accurate than an old rotten spud shot out of a 12 gauge shotgun at close range you would be lucky to hit a barn door at 20 meters with it.</p><p align="left"><br>So. What enables this high tech boat tail bullet to be aerodynamic and very accurate?, this is in the rifling of the barrel. These rifles usually have a fast twist rate; in actual fact they have a very fast twist rate. This causes the bullet to rotate very very fast.Without this fast rate of rotation, our high tech bullet would probably flip end over end.</p><p>Rotating our pellets through the use of rifled barrels helps give them stability as well so, they dont&nbsp; flip end over end. One of the questionsthat we need to address is how fast do our pellets need to spin? Airgun barrels come in twist rates from as slow as 1:20 to 1:12 or in simple terms 1 turn in 20 inches to 1turn in 12 inches. How do we decide which is best? And does it really matter? and what is the difference between them?<br></p><p>Without going into a bunch of math about which twist rate is best lets look at what works, how and why it works. The object of the rifling the barrel isto rotate the pellet and what we are really interested in is the pellets rotation rate. To understand rotation rate, we need to look at somemath. Rotation Rate = (12 / Twist Rate) * Muzzle Velocity, in feet per-second. then times it by 60 The number 12 comes from 1 turn in a foot, or 12 inches; since weare using feet per-second. This gives our 150 grain 30 caliber rifle bullet traveling at 2900 feet per second a rotation rate of 174,000 revolutions per-minute, or 2900revolutions per-second. Thats pretty insane.</p><p>Now It doesnt take a rocket scientist to work out that the faster we shoot our pellet/bullet the faster it will be rotating. if we were to take a .22 14grain pellet and shoot it at 800fps with a barrel twist rate of 1:12 our pellet will be spinning at 48000 feet per minute or 800 revs per second.&nbsp;</p><p>However, since the actual rate of rotation is controlled by both velocity and twist rate these twist rates are not really that far off themark as they should be. However, airgun pellets have bigger problems built into their design.</p><p>Sometimes when bullets are not properly made, they can suffer from static or dynamic unbalance. This is usually caused by thebullet having a hollow spot or spots inside. The key word here is unbalance. When a bullet is unbalanced; it quickly loses stability and accuracygoes out the window.</p><p>An airgun pellet looks more like a shuttlecock than a bullet and it has a great deal of air space around it and inside when it is flying through the air, when compared toour high tech bullet. This lends itself to the pellet's weight not being perpendicular or centered with its line of travel. In any real sensethis design leaves itself open to static and dynamic unbalance and again the key word here is unbalance and any lack of balancecan and will cause our pellet to wobble. That is to say, it will not travel in a very aerodynamic fashion.</p><p><font color="#CCCCCC">Aerodynamic unbalance can also be caused by the rifling in the barrel what can happen is that coarse rifling will causetiny chunks of lead to be pushed outward giving the head of our pellet a fan blade like appearance. Needless to say, that this is not good forthe aerodynamics of our pellet. While this fan blade type of deformation is rare; all of the barrels with coarse rifling tend to do this to somedegree. However, if you get rid of the rifling; you would also get rid of accuracy.</font></p><br><span style="font-size:10px"><br /><br />Edited by Nunga - 21&nbsp;Aug&nbsp;2014 at 3:56pm</span>]]>
   </description>
   <pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2014 15:53:52 +0000</pubDate>
   <guid isPermaLink="true">www.kiwiairgunners.co.nz/forum_posts.asp?TID=153&amp;PID=993#993</guid>
  </item> 
 </channel>
</rss>